My Office Manager Thinks My Fees are Too High

My Office Manager Thinks My Fees are Too High

By May 24, 2019Episodes

What happens when a doctor recommends treatment to his patients but then passes it over to the office manager to discuss the financial aspects as well as schedule? This seems fine but very few are actually getting appointed. Why? Because the office manager is uncomfortable handling this because she feels the dentistry is too expensive. What do we do? This is a question that was sent in to The Dental Practice Fixers, so please listen to what Dr. Richard Madow and Dr. David Madow have to say. Then of course we do the call of the week. We call an office
asking a fairly simple question – I need a crown. Fairly straightforward, right? But then we reference something on the office’s website about what the crown is actually made from. That’s when the call goes a bit downhill! You need to listen to this one.

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My Office Manager Thinks My Fees are Too High

Voice Recording: The Dental Practice Fixers Podcast is brought to you by the Madow Center For Dental Practice Success. To find out how we can help increase the success of your practice, check out madow.com or call us at 1-800-258-0060
 [music playing]
 Dr. David Madow: So you’re pretty good at presenting treatment plans and by the time you turn it over to your office manager, she’s not only a little bit on control, but she doesn’t want to talk fees because she thinks your fees are too high. We’re going to talk about this. Episode 14, the Dental Practice Fixers. Welcome, welcome, welcome. Dr. David Madow, along with…
 Dr. Richard Madow: Dr. Richard Madow. Thank so much everybody for being here. We love the nice comments we get on the podcast. So please keep reviewing us on iTunes, sending us great emails even if you want to critique us and tell us you don’t like the podcast because of this particular reason. 
 Dr. David Madow: Go do that.
 Dr. Richard Madow: We’d love to hear that.
 Dr. David Madow: By the way, real quick. A coffee clink, that we’re here live together in the studio.
 Dr. Richard Madow: Yeah it’s great to be here. 
 Dr. David Madow: Coffee clink.
 Dr. Richard Madow: You know how important this mug is to me. I feel like [cross talking - 0:01:16.3]. This was a present from Dr. David Moffet all the way from Australia. Using it quite a bit at the office ever since. Thank you Dr. Moffet if you’re watching. Tonight you should. Okay. Speaking of that, we love your questions for the podcast. So please, please keep sending it like Dr. Eddie M. did from New Jersey today. Here’s his question. It says Dental Practice Fixers, up until now I have been presenting all of the treatment including fees. My acceptance percentage is pretty good but not great. How is your acceptance percentage?
 Dr. David Madow: It’s pretty good. Do you want to find them? 
 Dr. Richard Madow: Pretty good. Everyone loves my office manager. And I thought she could do this very well. So I talked to her about getting more involved. She told me she was not comfortable with presenting fees, because she thinks my fees are way too high. What should I do? Dr. Eddie M. in New Jersey. Well the first question I always ask somebody from New Jersey is what exit. 
 Dr. David Madow: 107, 101.
 Dr. Richard Madow: No that may be only the Garden State Parkway like, not the New Jersey Turnpike. But okay, Dr. Eddie M. from New Jersey. I was pretty good at presenting treatment. Acceptance percentage has not been fantastic. He thought maybe his office manager could have better rapport with the patients. So he says, hey let’s call out match. It’s like our [inaudible - 0:02:41.0].
 Dr. David Madow: That’s a good one. 
 Dr. Richard Madow: I love you to get her more involved but – and I agree and you’d probably agree with this too. That maybe for complex cases is one thing, but it starts, always the best use of the dentist’s time talking about routine treatment. And a really talented office manager/treatment coordinator should be able to do a great job of that. Agreed. Maybe not. 
 Dr. David Madow: Seriously, I did that just to throw you off a little but it didn’t work. Yeah totally agree. The dentist I think should be discussing treatment only to an extent, and then you’ve got to have a professional that totally understands everything and can explain it to the patient in  very simple terms along with financial.
 Dr. Richard Madow: Yeah financial. I always felt like, unless the case was really complex, I didn’t want to be involved with the fees. I enjoy telling a patient about periodontal disease. That’s weird in choice [inaudible - 0:03:37.7] about their teeth. How fast to get through this issue? I told him about a crown, what it is, why they need it and how we do those things. But then when it came to money – not that it’s a dirty, filthy topic, but I still know it’s better handled by a talented team member.
 Dr. David Madow: Absolutely. No question.
 Dr. Richard Madow: And we can even say hey. Let me concentrate on the dentistry and Carol can talk to you about the finances. 
 Dr. David Madow: I don’t think the dentist should be involved in the financial part, because then what happens if the patient starts questioning and asking about insurance? It’s not in the shoes of the dentist to be involved. Nothing to do with financial at all.
 Dr. Richard Madow: Should we go a little lower doc? Okay so anyway, so this dentist – maybe they were a little behind the curve on that, but not wanting to say to stop. And good, good job Dr. Eddie. And then my office manager said she thinks his fees are way too high. [inaudible - 0:04:23.5]
 [cross talking - 0:04:26.8]
 Dr. Richard Madow: The older brother always tells the little brother what to do. I’m 60 years old dammit. Stop telling me what to do. 
 Dr. David Madow: I totally took care of the baggage in another episode.
 Dr. Richard Madow: No I don’t want to work. I just want to bang on the table the whole day.
 Dr. David Madow: I get it. Well I see with that a much deeper problem than somebody than an office manager not being able to talk about treatment plans or financial with patients because she thinks the fees are too high. It goes deeper than that because if there’s somebody working at the front desk especially an office manager, first of all she’s got – I’m assuming she’s got people that are working under her who’s she’s talking to. But not only that, every time a phone call comes in and they ask a question about some type of treatment. In her mind, in her heart she believes that this office is way too expensive. That’s a major problem.
 Dr. Richard Madow: I agree. It’s a huge problem. Let’s face it, we know that dentists in general although we have seen exceptions, earn more money than their team. I mean that’s the hierarchy of earing in the dental practice. And let’s say that you’re a dental office manager, you’re making a great salary but you might have a more [inaudible - 0:05:33.5], some debts and all kinds of things that you’re – spending is very – you got to be really careful of what you spend. And then you hear that a crown or whatever, somebody’s treatment will be thousands of dollars and you think to yourself, wow I’m glad that I’m not faced with that situation. Because I don’t know how I can come up with two, three, four thousand dollars for now. It would be a struggle for me. And we totally get that and it’s important to know that. But I think the office manager has to be comfortable that excellent quality healthcare does have a cost. This cost is fair, it’s reasonable and she’s being paid her paycheck because of these fees and we’ve got to think that the patient is getting a really good value. That’s the main thing. If you don’t believe the patient is getting a good value, it’s going to be tougher for you to present and to collect.
 Dr. David Madow: Well it’s interesting what you just said, and I’m wondering there are two levels and we’ll know the answer to this because this question will just [inaudible - 0:06:28.4] for you. But does the office manager think that dentistry itself is very expensive? In other words, no matter where you go, if you’re going to get dentistry it’s going to be expensive and it’s not worth it. Or does she think this office’s fees are way above what they should be. 
 Dr. Richard Madow: Great question. Let’s say B. 
 Dr. David Madow: That’s the way I took it.
 Dr. Richard Madow: I wasn’t sure but I’m glad you brought up.
 Dr. David Madow: I took it that way. 
 Dr. Richard Madow: Okay. Let’s say that she feels this particular office is overpriced so to speak.
 Dr. David Madow: Especially, how does she know and maybe – let’s say she’s called around. Let’s say this office is in the top 20% of fees in the area. That’s fine as long as the quality of care is really good, and the dentist cares and he’s doing really good work. She should be – some old consultants used to say, we should be proud of our fees.
 Dr. Richard Madow: I never liked that.
 Dr. David Madow: I put all kidding aside. You should be because let’s say I needed some type of not dental treatment. Some of kind of medical, surgical procedure. I want to go to the person that is the best even if the fees were higher than the other surgeons. I want to go to the person that I felt was really going to help me and same thing with a dentist. If I were…
 Dr. Richard Madow: Not everyone can afford that person. Let’s face it.
 Dr. David Madow: Right.
 Dr. Richard Madow: I just saw, I think it was a survey online that 86% of dental practices are in the top 20 percentile when it comes to their fees. 
 Dr. David Madow: Absolutely. And do you know that 50% of the dentists are or 49% of the dentists are below average. 
 Dr. Richard Madow: Well I’m not away in [inaudible - 0:07:58.7]
 Dr. David Madow: I think it’s – I hate to say this with some dentists but it’s kind of true.
 Dr. Richard Madow: So look to your left, look to your right if those things are above average. Okay, so let’s get back to this question. 
 Dr. David Madow: What do we do?
 Dr. Richard Madow: Let’s just say that this practice is – well one thing is if they are in the typically top of fees or top 20 or 10% or whatever. There better be a reason. So this practice should be providing really really high quality dentistry. Great patient care, they take their time with their patients, don’t rush them in and out, a fee for service practice. All those things that would justify fees on a higher end.
 Dr. David Madow: Yeah. Now it goes down to – it gets down to this office manager. Nothing can be done to make her really feel that she’s working for a great dentist, who does great work, who really cares about his patients. That means you need a fix. If that can’t be fixed, I got to tell you something. The dentist needs to move on and find somebody that really believes in his or – I don’t know if it’s his or – from Dr. Eddie M. His work. You cannot have an office manager that’s second guessing you, that doesn’t believe in you, that thinks you’re too expensive, that thinks you’re ripping people off. You cannot have that. 
 Dr. Richard Madow: Well maybe it’s up to the dentist to teach the office manager why their fees are worth what they are. And let’s just say it’s scenario A where this person thinks in general, dentists are so expensive. There’s so many – right and a lot of people think that. Maybe they shouldn’t be working in a dental practice but I think we should give them the opportunity to learn and let’s use the old analogy that everybody understands. If you’re a car salesman and you’re selling KIAs versus selling BMW, well KIAs are great cars. Very reliable, they last for a long time, they look great and all those things. But BMW is more expensive for many reasons. I’m not a super car guy but I would imagine they drive incredibly well, all those things. If you were the BMW salesman you got to believe that that cost for the BMW is justified. You’ve got to believe that yeah maybe KIAs are great cars, but this car is worth every bit of that $65,000 MSRP or else you’re not going to be able to sell them, and same with the dental practice.
 Dr. David Madow: Okay what does this doc do? He’s got an office manager who does not believe in him, does not believed in his fees. What’s the 30 second version, how does he fix it? What does he do?
 Dr. Richard Madow: A very frank meeting. Max, tell me why you think my fees are just high? Well you know, blah, blah, blah. So let’s find out the reason first of all. Is it because she personally couldn’t afford dentistry? Is it because she thinks all healthcare is so expensive or Dr. Eddie’s fees are so high? Then address it from there and Dr. Eddie better be able to justify why his fees are what they are. 
 Dr. David Madow: We’re not so sure his fees are that high. 
 Dr. Richard Madow: It’s true.
 Dr. David Madow: We’re not so sure. I just wonder if the office manager [inaudible - 0:10:40.7] goes to Dr. Eddie and her family goes to him as patients. I wonder if they do. If they do, that’s a really good sign because they believe in his dentistry.
 Dr. Richard Madow: Or maybe he’s given them a huge discount. 
 Dr. David Madow: He maybe, yes. I mean bottom line is Dr. Eddie has to get his team to believe in him. It’s never to what it’s about. If she does not believe in him, and his fees, maybe they got a beautiful office and let’s face it, it’s a business. You have to charge. If she does not believe in it, then he needs to find somebody who does because there are plenty out there that will. 
 Dr. Richard Madow: There’s something else. I know we need to move over to the call for the week in a second. And again this is lot of [inaudible - 0:11:19.9] because – basing on this question have been set. Maybe Dr. Eddie is flaunting his wealth. Maybe he’s pulling up in a different fancy car every day and all the fancy clothes and coming in with expensive [inaudible - 0:11:34.4] and thousand-dollar shoes. I doubt that’s the case, but you never know. And then I think maybe the practice manager would be suspicious that he’s kind of charging so much and breaking at the…
 Dr. David Madow: That’s a good point. We don’t know if that’s the case but it’s a good suggestion for all dentists. Even if you’re very very wealthy which we hope you are, don’t flaunt it. Be a regular person. 
 Dr. Richard Madow: Be a regular person, save well. Sure. Do the things that money can buy if you’re already near comfortable in your savings and take a great vacation and drive a nice car. But don’t be snobby about or rubbing rubber [cross talking - 0:12:13.6].
 Dr. David Madow: That’s when it comes down to it. Yeah so I think we’ve [cross talking - 0:12:19.2]. You want to get on with the call? 
 Dr. Richard Madow: Before we get on with the call, let’s just say that – we hope that all of our listeners here have this meeting with their team and talk about why good healthcare is expensive and why it’s a great investment, and why it’s somebody who’s struggling with our bills, and he’s faced with a $2500 dental treatment plan. You can show that person why it’s worth it for them to spend that money instead of spending on something else. So I mean it’s a really important conversation to have. We need to talk about the costs of things. 
 Dr. David Madow: So let’s take it even one step a little bit deeper. If there’s anything, anything at all in your office that’s festering, this is a problem, it’s a big problem. But the worst mistake Dr. Eddie could do is let it go. That’s the worst thing possible. You got to take care of any situation or any problem and deal with it. Deal it with here. It may be easy, it may not be easy. You just can’t ignore it and you’ve got to do something about it.
 Dr. Richard Madow: I totally agree. My uncle is festering. I love to hear that. You remember really quickly before we do the call of the week. Talk to our folks about TBSE.
 Dr. David Madow: Let’s do that. Absolutely.
 Dr. Richard Madow: TBSE stands for The Best Seminar Ever, that we produce every fall in Las Vegas. We didn’t name it the best seminar ever. It’s the 25th year. I think about – we used to call it The Super Fall Seminar. Maybe in its 4th or 5th year the attendees started suggesting that hey this is the best seminar. We should call it that. 
 Dr. David Madow: I’m going to tell you it’s nice. It still is. No question about it.
 Dr. Richard Madow: Incredible speakers, two days. Everybody in the same room. You’ll love so much practice growth and motivational information. It’s this November at the incredible Tropicana Resort Hotel in Vegas. So if you want to learn more, just go to tbse.com. Stands for The Best Seminar Ever.com. You’ll see who the speakers will be this year, learn a little bit about the venue. See how inexpensive it is for the doctor and team to have a great educational vacation. I know a lot of people say edutainment. I’m trying to figure – is there a word combined, education and vacation. But they’re kind of the same ending. They might be tough. It’s eduvacation. Starts to sound a little weird. [cross talking - 0:14:39.6]. It’s a great educational vacation.
 Dr. David Madow: You’ll have a great time.
 Dr. Richard Madow: And we’re gonna be of course hanging out with everybody. Tbse.com.
 Dr. David Madow: Maybe we could plan a live podcast or something. 
 Dr. Richard Madow: It’s super cool.
 Dr. David Madow: Keep on that [cross talking - 0:14:53.9]
 Dr. Richard Madow: It will be hilarious. 
 Dr. David Madow: We’re going to be asking live questions maybe.
 Dr. Richard Madow: We’re going to do it.
 Dr. David Madow: Let’s try it.
 Dr. Richard Madow: I’m not sure when but we’re going to do it. TBSE.com. We’ll see you in Vegas.
 Dr. David Madow: We hope to see you there. Real quickly also two things, so if Rich and I can send you a check for $50 every month or $100 or $500. Would you cash it? Would you take it?  Probably not going to be able to do that, but we’ve got something, I think it would be kind of similar: changing your credit card processing for a company that we’re using. We believe in Fattmerchant. We use Fattmerchant here, we’ve talked about Fattmerchant before. It’s a really simple way. It’s a really simple way to change. You just go online and change it. And I guarantee because it depends on the file you’re doing. Some docs watching this are doing very low volume. Others are doing an extremely high volume, but again, it’s like sending your check or it’s like Fattmerchant sending you a check every single month because we’re saving all your credit card processing. Why wouldn’t you do it? It’s so simple to change. Go to BIT.LY/FattMad all one word. I’ll do it one more time and if you’re watching the video which we hope you are, it’s right below us. BIT.LY/FATTMAD, also while we’ve got your attention, we hope we still have your attention, I think the call is going to be great today. I know that. I know and I feel it. But if you want to take your practice and you’re struggling and not sure you reach this clientele, you really want to improve your practice, you’re not sure how to do it. We encourage you to attend one of our Masterclasses. They’re at the Madow Center for Dental Practice Success in Baltimore, Maryland. And most of them sell out and we keep them very very small. Go to masterclass.madow.com, you’ll see our schedule and we’d love to have you attend for a day. It’s a great day of learning with me, with Rich, with our coaching team. It’s something that will really help your practice and your life. We hope to see you there. 
 Dr. Richard Madow: Alright. So call of the week. Let’s just say that you’re a patient looking for a new dental office. You know you need a couple of crowns, you pick a dentist, you go on their website to do due diligence, you have a question on something you saw on their website, you were committed to find your new dentist to get a couple of crowns done. How tough could that be? 
 Dr. David Madow: Usually enough.
 Dr. Richard Madow: Let’s find out.
 [phone ringing]
 Female Voice: This is Amy.
 Dr. Richard Madow: Hi Amy, are you seeing new patients now?
 Female Voice: Yes we are. 
 Dr. Richard Madow: Good. I have a question for you. I was told maybe a few months ago I need a crown. So I was just Googling around and I came upon your website. I saw you had a little section about crowns and caps. And I was reading and said a crown can be made of either porcelain baked onto a metal substrate. I wasn’t clear what that meant. What does that mean? Baked onto a metal substrate.
 Female Voice: Well it’s just a porcelain crown that what they did – they built the crown but then they make it – it’s kind of hard for me to explain. Basically it’s just porcelain. It’s a porcelain crown. They have to put a retainer and filling on it first and they have to build a crown on that. That could mean what they’re talking about putting them on a metal. But it’s basically just a porcelain crown. So you’re going to get a temporary prior to that. 
 Dr. Richard Madow: So the whole crown is just made out of porcelain?
 Female Voice: Right. 
 Dr. Richard Madow: Okay I understand.
 Female Voice: It’s a porcelain crown.
 Dr. Richard Madow: I understand. And I needed – let’s just say I think I need two crowns, I mean you might find differently but how long would that take to do two crowns do you think typically?
 Female Voice: In one day – are they on the same side, are they on the opposite side, upper or lower. It can also depend. If they’re on the opposite side of the mouth, we have to do two different appointments. 
 Dr. Richard Madow: I’m pretty sure they’re both on the right hand side. 
 Female Speaker: Right hand side. Okay each crown usually takes about an hour and a half. So you’ll be here a little over two hours. 
 Dr. Richard Madow: So each one takes an hour and a half. Okay great.
 Female Voice: Yeah but it can usually – if they’re right next to each other, he can usually can numb the whole area and then he can get that completed within probably getting up preps and ready with about a little over an hour. Then he has to make the temporary so that would take about 15 minutes. 
 Dr. Richard Madow: So more efficient if they’re right near each other?
 Female Voice: Yeah. Otherwise if they’re on the opposite side of the mouth or if one is upper, one is lower, we have to use and make two different appointments because your whole area will be numb. You won’t be able to eat on that side. 
 Dr. Richard Madow: Got you. Hey thanks so much for the information. I really appreciate it.
 Female Voice: You are welcome. Thank you.
 Dr. Richard Madow: Thank you, bye.
 Female Voice: Bye, bye. You’re welcome, bye, bye.
 Dr. David Madow: Oh boy. Another great…
 Dr. Richard Madow: I always like to start with a pause.
 Dr. David Madow: What’s the pause?
 Dr. Richard Madow: We both went to University in Maryland Dental School way back in the ag days. Remember Dr. [inaudible - 0:20:00.8]? The club instructor.
 Dr. David Madow: Yeah.
 Dr. Richard Madow: Nicest guy in the world. No matter what piece of crap you will present him with, he would always start with a complement. It’s such a good technique. 
 Dr. David Madow: I like your tie today. 
 Dr. Richard Madow: It’s exactly right. 
 Dr. David Madow: The press sucks.
 Dr. Richard Madow: If you have nothing good to say, you don’t know [inaudible - 0:20:16.4] simple. If they have nothing good to say about the work you are presenting, it was [inaudible - 0:20:22.1] so you can go [inaudible - 0:20:23.8]. You always [cross talking - 0:20:25.9]. Well I like the tie anyway. It’s so funny. So I’ll just say she was nice and friendly.
 Dr. David Madow: I’m not going to disagree. I won’t disagree with you.
 Dr. Richard Madow: Friendly, was willing to take the time to explain, maybe incorrectly but explaining anything the person asks. So at least we’ll give her a little bit of credit. It’s funny, as you remember on this – I mean the voice menu thing, if you’re a new patient who wants to make a new appointment, press 1. You think oh man I’m going to get that, the killer on this thing. 
 Dr. David Madow: You have to close her. 
 Dr. Richard Madow: The close. She’s going to be able to – on any new patient. 
 Dr. David Madow: The call was crazy because she obviously was way in over her head. She didn’t even really understand exactly what a crown was. Let alone, porcelain baked to a metal substrate. 
 Dr. Richard Madow: Okay. Let me talk about that teeth here. See this all the time, you go on a dentist website, they got some pre-purchased, every bullshit to describe dental procedures. And that’s fine, we don’t expect you have the time to write up every single – there are a hundred procedures described on these websites. You don’t have the time to do that. But they use this lingo that no potential patient will possibly understand. It’s too scientific. I wouldn’t say on the website, it’s porcelain baked onto a metal substrate. Somebody that works in a dental office doesn’t even know what that means. 
 Dr. David Madow: I don’t even know what that means.
 Dr. Richard Madow: Exactly.
 Dr. David Madow: Metal substrate. I think in my biology class.
 Dr. Richard Madow: Do you expect a potential patient knows what that means? Say porcelain for looks, metal for strength. I don’t know, whatever. Make it simple so that anybody can understand it. Don’t put this crap on your website that’s way too technical. It just confuses people. 
 Dr. David Madow: I don’t even think we need to get that detail at all. Somebody comes in for a crown it could be explained to them, but it’s a covering, it’s a protection for the tooth to make it stronger. Something like that. But they don’t need to know all this stuff. 
 Dr. Richard Madow: The materials that are utilized. Unbelievable.
 Dr. David Madow: Maybe it’s beautiful porcelain, it’s going to match your other teeth. Something like that. 
 Dr. Richard Madow: I’ve seen websites telling they can be made of Emax. I don’t even know what that is. 
 Dr. David Madow: Nobody cares.
 Dr. Richard Madow: Exactly, unbelievable.
 Dr. David Madow: Ridiculous.
 Dr. Richard Madow: It can be made of Emax, [inaudible - 0:22:43.8]. I don’t know what that is.
 Dr. David Madow: Pardon me. I passed a sign the other day. We were driving along, there’s a dental office. They had a big – what do you call it, like a sidewalk sign trying to be –
 Dr. Richard Madow: Like a sandwich board?
 Dr. David Madow: Kind of be aware. But it’s out on the sidewalk and you take it in at night. And it’s something like: we do CEREC crowns, same day CEREC crowns. Something like that. Who probably driving by doesn’t know what that –
 Dr. Richard Madow: No idea.
 Dr. David Madow: I mean you could if you really wanted to put same day crowns, but I’m not so sure I’ll be putting that out on the sidewalk.
 Dr. Richard Madow: Even so, please CEREC crowns there’s [inaudible - 0:23:14.9]. 
 Dr. David Madow: I know it got some kind of marketing campaign but nobody knows that.
 Dr. Richard Madow: Not much.
 Dr. David Madow: Nobody knows.
 Dr. Richard Madow: Well we’ll get into that in a different time.
 Dr. David Madow: Getting back to the call, she was surely, she was purely asked a question that was out of her lead. She didn’t really know how to explain. You can tell by her voice. Yeah she didn’t really know.
 Dr. Richard Madow: She didn’t know what a metal…
 Dr. David Madow: Metal substrate, no.
 Dr. Richard Madow: And I like how she said each one takes an hour and a half so you’ll be here two hours…
 Dr. David Madow: Two hours. She’s good at math.
 Dr. Richard Madow: She’s good at math. 
 Dr. David Madow: And only is she’s something else. What’s – it’s like the old philosophy that if – it’s got to be next to each other to do in one appointment because you don’t want to be – I mean if somebody came to your office and they needed a crown on number five and number 20, you wouldn’t do it one appointment? 
 Dr. Richard Madow: I wasn’t getting any clinical but I was thinking the exact same thing. Well it’s from the old, old days. If somebody wants two crowns and they want to be in there, do both crowns. It’s easier for the patient. I don’t buy that stuff that they can’t eat. Bullshit. So you tell them not to eat for a few hours. They’re happier because you’ve done both crowns in the same appointment. Your efficiency rating and profit per hour goes way up. So I totally…
 Dr. David Madow: [cross talking - 0:24:24.2].
 Dr. Richard Madow: I know. Unbelievable. And then a patient knows they need two crowns, they push for one for a new patient who wants some appointment.
 Dr. David Madow: That’s a closer. 
 Dr. Richard Madow: And how did she end the call? 
 Dr. David Madow: She ended the call with quick thank you very much, something like that. So never asked your name, never asked for your phone number, never asked if you want to set up – she cannot get back in touch with you.
 Dr. Richard Madow: Zero. And the best opportunity I think is right when the clinical question started. Well the best thing for you will be to come in and [inaudible - 0:24:55.5]. He or she can answer any questions you have. Can you stop by tomorrow at 2 PM?
 Dr. David Madow: Free complimentary exam. Just get them in. Do something.
 Dr. Richard Madow:  She didn’t do that. And then at the very end, she still had the opportunity to say we’d love to see you, can you come in tomorrow? 
 Dr. David Madow: I’ll go back to my point. I’ll do this on almost every call. Most doctors are in the back doing their work, doing their thing. Probably doing great work, doing their thing and they think that [inaudible - 0:25:20.9] at the front desk, she’s so great. She’s so great on the phone. She gets all the patients and meanwhile, how many calls come in like this that [inaudible - 0:25:30.4] doesn’t even ask to set up an appointment.
 Dr. Richard Madow: Well if I push – not push the one, I already got the person that wasn’t this good. We got the best…
 Dr. David Madow: I wonder if you would have gotten like some assistant who was in the middle of taking an impression. She wouldn’t have taken off.
 Dr. Richard Madow: Maybe she wouldn’t pick up the inventory [cross talking - 0:25:45.3]. Anyway, I hate to say it but I think we both agree, she gets an F.
 Dr. David Madow: F.
 Dr. Richard Madow: We’re so sorry to hear that. That will conclude Episode 14, Season 2. Dental Practice Fixers Podcast. We will see you…
 Dr. David Madow: Next time.
 Dr. Richard Madow: Thanks so much everyone.