April 2019 - The Dental Practice Fixers
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April 2019

Doctor Gets Paid by the Day

The Doctor Gets Paid by the Day – Is it Fair to Ask Her to do THIS During Downtime?

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We pay our doctor very well by the day and not by production. So since she is getting paid, is it OK to ask her to do other tasks when she has openings? For example, should the doctor get on the phone to call patients? What may we ask her to do and what should we stay away from? Listen to how Dr. Richard Madow and Dr. David Madow answer this one. Then of course we do the call of the week. We call a dental office that is offering a “free dinner” on their website as a marketing technique for getting new patients. Easy, right? Well, not necessarily. Let’s listen in to see how this one was handled! If you have a question that you would like answered on our podcast, please send it in to podcast@madow.com. We will do our best to get yours answered!


The Doctor Gets Paid by the Day – Is it Fair to Ask Her to do THIS During Downtime?


Female Speaker 1: The Dental Practice Fixers Podcast is brought to you by The Madow Center for Dental Practice Success. To find out how we can help increase the success of your practice, checkout madow.com or call us at 1-800-258-0060.
 
[Music]
 
Dr. Dave Madow: An associate dentist is guaranteed a certain amount of money per day, whether he or she is busy or not. It can leave us some calls which we’re going to talk about right now. This is The Dental Practice Fixers Episode 10. I am Dr. David Madow along with. 
Dr. Rich Madow: Dr. Richard Madow, great to be here, everyone. 
Dr. Dave Madow: Yeah, it’s great to be back. We really appreciate you and we are the fixers as we say. Let’s get right in to a great question we received and we’re going to go and answer this as best as we can as we always do on these episodes.  
Dr. Rich Madow: This question actually turns out to be multifaceted and even though it’s maybe single-faceted when you hear it. I’ve got it on my phone here. So okay, well, here’s the question and that is, hey guys, we recently hired an associate with a guarantee of $600 per day. But sometimes the schedule falls apart. Question, what can we have the associate dentist do to help out the office? Do you think it is weird to ask her to make phone calls and book her patients since our front office is short-staffed? So, that’s a great question as it is and then it also leads to other questions like should you be paying a guarantee per day to an associate dentist? So, let’s talk about all these issues. What do you think? Where do you want to start?
Dr. Dave Madow: Maybe we should start with why that arrangement in the first place? I think that arrangement in itself can lead to a lot of problems but she sounds like it’s leading to problems already. I mean, so this dentist signed an agreement and he or she is- 
Dr. Rich Madow: She. 
Dr. Dave Madow: She, okay, it’s a she, she’s making [crosstalk] $600 per day. Whether she’s busy or not, she’s guaranteed that amount of money. I mean, why would you want to have an agreement like that? Why wouldn’t you want to have the dentist responsible for his or her production and working hard and knowing the more you, the more you work, the more cases you do, the more you’re going to make. You know, you’re investing in the craft. 
Dr. Rich Madow: Well, I’ll tell you exactly what. I think remember back to our day, I don’t [inaudible 02:22] also [crosstalk]. 
Dr. Dave Madow: A long time ago. 
Dr. Rich Madow: I graduated dental school 84, you graduated in 80. Then we both did our residencies. And then we both… we were looking for associateships before we had our own practices. It was a different time, I think we didn’t have huge student debt, we didn’t have corporate dentistry. In these days, just think of a student graduating, they’ve got a lot of debt and they’re being made an offer by a corporate dental practice. Well, that’s, you know, those practices are all guaranteeing a per day guarantee. So I think all corporate practices are doing [crosstalk]. 
Dr. Dave Madow: I can’t speak for every [crosstalk] it’s very typical. You make x per day [crosstalk]. 
Dr. Rich Madow: Bonuses and chances to earn more but yeah essentially someone will know, well, if I take this job at a crappy corporate dental office, at least now I’ll be able to chip away my loan. If I’d take this job at this other practice where they’re saying, yeah, I got 30, 32, 33%. What if I have a shitty day? I won’t be able to chip away my loan on that day. So, I think we can understand the temptation here where it might be tough to hire someone without a guarantee. 
Dr. Dave Madow: Well, that’s a good question. So okay, if that’s the way that they have to do it, I mean, I don’t agree with it. It’s good but I mean, these are corporate people owning this dental practice. They must know what they’re doing, right? I just can’t [crosstalk] 
Dr. Rich Madow: I don’t like it either. I don’t like it either. I think an associate dentist is different than another team member. It’s different than, you know, someone else and they should be paid on what they collect. It’s the only thing, you know, when you’re an owner dentist, you don’t get paid if the money doesn’t come in. You’re a dentist, you’re in the major leagues now. You get paid on what you… and if you don’t like that arrangement, get a job with, you know, a government agency or a super corporate practice, whatever. You want to be in private practice. There’s a little bit of a chance you got to take. 
Dr. Dave Madow: You know, here’s the way I look at that. I own a dental practice, this is like, you know, if I  own a dental practice right now and I’m hiring somebody, it’s not my problem that you’ve got massive student loan debt. It’s not my problem. I hire you as a dentist, the way we do it here is you get a percentage of the work you do and that’s how you get paid. So okay, but let’s do- 
Dr. Rich Madow: I agree but for some reason [crosstalk] this practice is on a situation with $600 a day guarantee, they work five days, that’s $3,000 a week, that’s a $150,000 a year, guaranteed.
Dr. Dave Madow: $150,000 guaranteed. 
Dr. Rich Madow: It’s a hell of a guarantee for a young dentist.  
Dr. Dave Madow: So I guess we got to answer the question then. So if that dentist has holes in her schedule, I think anything is fair. They can tell her to do anything they want her to do. They can tell her to get on the phone, answer the calls. I mean, I don’t think it’s right, I don’t think it’s right that she gets on the phone and it sounds kind of weird to have like the dentist calling, it’s like vague but again, this is the model that I don’t believe in the first place. 
Dr. Rich Madow: Get her on the phone doing what? What are they doing?
Dr. Dave Madow: They ask if she should be calling patients. Let’s just say going through the “million dollar file cabinet.” People that haven’t been in and people that are overdue to schedule, they haven’t scheduled. For some reason, they got, you know, dropped and they needed to be called. The same thing that the office manager, scheduling manager would be doing. It’s very weird but again it goes back to this whole model, this whole model of the corporate dentist thing is weird as shit. So they’re breaking all the rules. 
Dr. Rich Madow: That’s the reality.  
Dr. Dave Madow: They’re breaking the rules anyway so yeah, it’s the reality. So the dentist might have to go ahead and do some stuff that she… that’s not clinical. 
Dr. Rich Madow: I’ll tell you what I had this dentist do. With our question, I’d say let’s just call her, what’s her name going to be? 
Dr. Dave Madow: Mary Jane. 
Dr. Rich Madow: Mary Jane, last dance for Mary Jane. Say, Mary Jane, see that building down the street, well, that building is the blah, blah, blah corporation. They’ve got great insurance. They have a bunch of patients, I want you to go to that building, meet with the HR Director and tell them why our practice is the best in town and why their patients… setup something, a lunch, a bagel, whatever it is. Do something, some people might call it ground marketing or whatever they want to call it, do something in the community. Don’t just sit there doing nothing. That’s unacceptable. And again, even though this person is being given a guarantee, it’s up to them in a way to grow their little piece of this practice. So let’s come up with some ways to do this.  
Dr. Dave Madow: Yeah, that’s one of the first things I thought of when we got the question that this person should be doing everything possible to grow her part of the practice. 
Dr. Rich Madow: Where it’s like, please call patients. Well, that has gone through the million dollar file cabinet.
Dr. Dave Madow: Yeah, but the ground marketing I think is important too. [crosstalk] Yeah, I mean, she should be doing… I guess she should be doing that anyway like everybody in the community, when she goes to a restaurant, when she goes to get her dry cleaning done, handing the card, getting into a conversation, handing a card saying, “I’m Dr. Mary Jane. I’m [crosstalk] in town with this practice. I’ll take good care of, you know, [crosstalk]” 
Dr. Rich Madow: You’ll see us down the street, you’ll see the chiropractor down as well. I don’t know, we got to draw the line somewhere. You’ll see other health professionals in the area, make yourself known in the community.  
Dr. Dave Madow: Yeah. I mean- 
Dr. Rich Madow: What’s wrong with that? I think that when I first opened my practice and I was the owner, I met everybody, I went to the school and I gave what? Go to the elementary school and give a lecture to the kids and bring little baggies and all this stuff.
Dr. Dave Madow: Yeah. See, you were the owner and you’re incentivized because you knew that when you went to a school and gave a talk, or when you went to a business, or when you did a… you were flipping burgers at the country [crosstalk], you knew that that was going to come back and make you busier, make your practice busier, earning more money. This person is guaranteed $600 a day whether she works or not. I don’t know whether the incentive was there for her to be going crazy to be bringing in more patients. She’d probably rather have holes in the schedule. 
Dr. Rich Madow: Well, that’s the wrong person for your practice because this person is being guaranteed a certain amount of money, they should have to work. And work isn’t always… it’s not always, you know, doing a crown prep to someone who knocks the door and [inaudible 08:13]. Work is grown in the practice. 
Dr. Dave Madow: But okay, if you were guaranteed $600 a day, let’s say you’re a young associate guaranteed $600 a day, would you want your schedule full to the max or would you want some wiggle room and [crosstalk] small things? 
Dr. Rich Madow: My understanding is that the guarantee is different than the potential. So for me, I would usually work, there’s a guarantee but there’s also a percentage. So you cannot more [crosstalk].
Dr. Dave Madow: They won’t insist. [crosstalk] 
Dr. Rich Madow: I’ve never like this some sort if that’s the case. 
Dr. Dave Madow: If that’s the case, if that’s the case, then I’d be out of my… I’d be out doing everything I could to grow the practice. 
Dr. Rich Madow: [Crosstalk] Sitting the back office, they firm up their butts, they don’t know what. That’s just doesn’t work.
Dr. Dave Madow: But there’s something else in the question, I can’t remember the question something else other than should we have her call… I thought there were something else. 
Dr. Rich Madow: Is it weird to ask her to make phone calls and book her patients? 
Dr. Dave Madow: Okay. 
Dr. Rich Madow: No. And I think everything we’ve been talking about, a reason is not to do the guarantee but again I think it’s the reality in today’s world. People… this is just the way it is. These young dentists are getting guarantees.
Dr. Dave Madow: I mean, you can argue that anything that’s done to make the practice better is going to bring in more patients, make her most successful. You would agree with that part, right? 
Dr. Rich Madow: Absolutely. 
Dr. Dave Madow: So let’s say that the bathroom is a mess, should she be in there cleaning the bathroom now to make the practice better? 
Dr. Rich Madow: Well, I’ll go back to this. I did it when I owned my practice. If I walked in there and the place was a mess, I mean, I’m not coming in there like a full cleaning crew but I would straighten up there and I will do whatever it’s up just like you would. A dentist does whatever it takes to make their practice better. Many times it means delegating, many times it means doing things for yourself. But this person accepted the guarantee and to me as crude as it may sound, it means that they do whatever the hell the owner dentist tells them to do whether they like it or not.
Dr. Dave Madow: Yeah and that comes back I guess if it was the right person, the right person and she’s not lazy and she wants to really grow and build that I guess anything is fair game. 
Dr. Rich Madow: Anything goes. 
Dr. Dave Madow: You know, I guess I keep my mindset id still like, hey, you know, you were a dentist, you work on production or collections or whatever it might be. Well, okay, I’ll tell you, well, you remember in the day when I finished my residency and I had associateship in a practice, it was kind of like the original, kind of like the original corporate dental place, it was growing. They had this like business guys coming in once a week and talk to the doctor and tell him what to do basically. So it’s kind of like yeah kind of the original. 
Dr. Rich Madow: Kind of the early days [crosstalk]
Dr. Dave Madow: Right. So I had a guarantee, I wouldn’t tell you what the guarantee was. It was so long ago, it was so low but I also could earn a lot more the more patients I saw. But I don’t remember if I was at… they wouldn’t let me get close to the phone like you call the patients. They wouldn’t let me do that. 
Dr. Rich Madow: Okay, this person let’s say they have a 2-hour hole in their schedule, what’s wrong with them getting on the phone doing confirmation calls? What’s wrong with it? What’s wrong with their patients? Jim, this is, this is Dr. Mary Jane, we’re looking forward to seeing you at your appointment. Do you have any questions for us? That actually can go a long way. I think it’s bright. I don’t see anything wrong with it. 
Dr. Dave Madow: So our answer is basically from this question, our answer is have her do whatever it takes, not clinical, whatever it takes to build the practice. Making calls, ground marketing, whatever. 
Dr. Rich Madow: But I would focus on the doctorish kinds of things like ground marketing, meeting people in the community, go and talk to the elementary school or the senior center, the assisted living facility, whatever you call, we don’t call them [inaudible 11:41] anyway, whatever they call it, doing the doctors things. Then yes, and whatever the doctor says, they got to do because you’re being paid a guarantee. [inaudible 11:50].
Dr. Dave Madow: Okay. I think that’s our answer, right? 
Dr. Rich Madow: I’m with it, man. Let’s do the call of the day. 
Dr. Dave Madow: Sounds great. Let’s get into it. Hey Rich, so before we get to the call real quickly, I was reminded that, you know, we just did a Masterclass a short time ago at our Madow Center and it was a great day. And I just want to remind our listeners and viewers that we offer a Masterclass for dentists. It’s a great day where you come in and it’s a day of learning. But not only a day of learning, they help and show you actually how to build your… how we can help you build your practice. And we’d love to have you come to Baltimore, to The Madow Center for Dental Practice Success for our next Masterclass. Check it out at masterclass.madow.com. It’s for doctors only and it is; there’s no charge. You just get to our Madow Center and we take care of you and it’s a great day. We really give a tremendous amount of info in a short period of time, Masterclass. 
Dr. Rich Madow: No question about it. And if you have to get on a plane to get there, well, how do you get… can you get free airfare? You can because if you use Fattmerchant for your credit card processing, you’re got to be saving more than your airfare amount probably every month, maybe much more. So Fattmerchant is the disruptor in credit card processing. They do not charge an overage percentage, just a flat monthly fee. Instead of telling you every single detail, we got a special site just for you to check it out. It’s bit.ly/fattmad, fat with two t’s, F-A-T-T-M-A-D. So just go to bit.ly/fattmad, F-A-T-T-M-A-D. As a friend of ours, you even get your credit card processing gizmo for free so check it out and start saving money. You’ll have enough money to fly to Baltimore even if you’re coming from Sydney, Australia and we’ll see you in the next Masterclass.
Dr. Dave Madow: We want you to see there. Now, let’s do the call.
Dr. Rich Madow: Let’s do it. 
Dr. Dave Madow: Ready? 
Dr. Rich Madow: Go.
Female Speaker 2: This call maybe recorded for quality assurance.
Male Speaker: To serve you better, this call may be recorded for training and quality purposes.
Dr. Dave Madow: Yeah, okay, I get it. 
Female Speaker 3: Office, how may I help you?
Dr. Rich Madow: Hi, I’ve got a question for you. I’m looking at your website and I’m interested in becoming a new patient and I see the new patient special includes dinner on you. Hello. 
Female Speaker 3: Let me take a look to it. 
Dr. Rich Madow: It says, new patients special, 20% off plus dinner on us.
Female Speaker 3: Okay, let me double check. Okay. I think that’s our new special. Let me pull it up. 
Dr. Rich Madow: Sure. 
Female Speaker 3: Do you mind if I place you on a brief hold to pull it up, okay? 
Dr. Rich Madow: Please. Now, that is horrible hold music. This is like computer-generated. I wouldn’t even call it music.
Female Speaker 3: Oh yes sir. So it is [inaudible 15:16] we’ll give you a gift certificate to PizzaRev. 
Dr. Rich Madow: Where is it to? 
Female Speaker 3: It’s PizzaRev. 
Dr. Rich Madow: PizzaRev.
Female Speaker 3: It’s a pizza place. 
Dr. Rich Madow: Yeah, I don’t really care for pizza. Can I eat somewhere else? 
Female Speaker 3: No sir, that’s all that we have. 
Dr. Rich Madow: A gift certificate to PizzaRev. Now, you don’t come with me, do you? That’s just for me.
Female Speaker 3: Yes, sir. 
Dr. Rich Madow: You do come with us? 
Female Speaker 3: No sir. Just no sir, we just give you the gift certificate.  
Dr. Rich Madow: Wow. What do I have to do to get that? Just come in as a patient?
Female Speaker 3: Yes, sir. We will get you in and schedule you for an exam and x-ray and you’ll see Dr. [Noise] and we’ll go from there. Do you have any issue that we need to discuss at this time? 
Dr. Rich Madow: Not that I know of, just looking for a new dentist. 
Female Speaker 3: All right. Well, very good. We’re glad you gave us a call and that you had an opportunity to look at our website so that’s great as well. Do you have any questions about our office? 
Dr. Rich Madow: I don’t, I don’t have any questions. The free dinner really struck my curiosity so I just wanted to call to find out about that.
Female Speaker 3: Oh right. Well, very good. I’m sorry I had to place you on that brief hold, that is one of our newer advertisements so I just wanted to make sure that I gave you the correct information. 
Dr. Rich Madow: I appreciate it. 
Female Speaker 3: If you have a specific time, would you like to come in and [crosstalk] schedule? 
Dr. Rich Madow: I don’t, I’m still just doing a little research.
Female Speaker 3: Okay. Well, very good. Well, can I take your name and number then and I’ll give you a call. You said, you’re just given… just doing a little research. 
Dr. Rich Madow: Sure. It’s Jim Hinkley. 
Female Speaker 3: Okay. 
Dr. Rich Madow: And it’s 801-242-7727
Female Speaker 3: 777, wait? 
Dr. Rich Madow: 7727. 
Female Speaker 3: I’m sorry. 
Dr. Rich Madow: 7727.
Female Speaker 3: All right. And when you are starting looking for a new dentist, what exactly are you looking for in the new dentist office? 
Dr. Rich Madow: I think they should be licensed. Hey anyway, I really got to run but thank you so much for your time. Thanks. 
Female Speaker 3: All right. Well, thank you so much. Bye. 
Dr. Rich Madow: Thank you. Bye.
Dr. Dave Madow: Okay. Wow, that was incredible on many levels. 
Dr. Rich Madow: That was unique, isn’t it? 
Dr. Dave Madow: On many levels, that was a great call. 
Dr. Rich Madow: Yeah, I got to tell you, I was just, you know, as I think we both do, we do our calls, just put in the name of the town, we put in dentist, so you come up, you go to their website. And this website was really striking the second we got to it and it was a beautiful website. There’s a big ad comes up, free dinner. When you come to see us as a new patient, free dinner, free dinner, free, it was like smacking me in the face. She had no idea about it.
Dr. Dave Madow: Well, so that’s number one. If you’re going to have like an ad, a big ad on your website announcing this free dinner, this promotion, don’t you think at the very least at a morning huddle, the doctor should make everybody aware of this promotion. Everybody should know about it. 
Dr. Rich Madow: There’s always some ads you’re thinking that was on a page off over page off over page in the corner on a sidebar [crosstalk]. 
Dr. Dave Madow: Very, very obvious. So, she should have known everything about it. Put you on hold and say, “Well, I don’t know if I have that promotion.” That wasn’t really good and I wonder what some of the other promotions are. What do they say? What are some of your other promotions? 
Dr. Rich Madow: Free massage [crosstalk].
Dr. Dave Madow: So she should have known everything about it, that’s number one. 
Dr. Rich Madow: Well, okay, let’s do number 0. 
Dr. Dave Madow: Number 0? 
Dr. Rich Madow: Was it really necessary to tell the person twice that the call is being recorded? I was… seriously, I was starting to feel very creepy. I mean, when I call the place, I don’t like it when they say the call is being recorded. I know we’ve come to accepting these days, it’s very normal. But twice, I felt really creepy about it.
Dr. Dave Madow: Yeah, I didn’t like it. I’ll tell you, I agree with that totally. 
Dr. Rich Madow: Awful music. 
Dr. Dave Madow: Awful music. What was it? It was horrible, right?  
Dr. Rich Madow: [Singing] It was like computer-generated. Yeah, I know fake piano music.
Dr. Dave Madow: Get yourself some good on hold messaging. 
Dr. Rich Madow: Absolutely. 
Dr. Dave Madow: Please. Okay. So we killed that one already. Okay, that’s three things there. 
Dr. Rich Madow: This may be cultural. I don’t really like the yes sir, no sir thing but again I thought this is in the South and [crosstalk] maybe it’s the way they all talk to some cultural… we’ll give you a cultural break here.
Dr. Dave Madow: I think it actually [crosstalk]. No, there’s a different reason that… yeah, I think totally acceptable and probably charming. I think that’s fine. 
Dr. Rich Madow: I thought she did a lot of things really well. Speaking of charming, she was an absolute [crosstalk]. I really felt that she cared.  
Dr. Dave Madow: Yeah. 
Dr. Rich Madow: I mean, I thought that she was going to be there at PizzaRev right with me.
Dr. Dave Madow: For a second, I thought she said she comes with you. 
Dr. Rich Madow: She was kind of making a joke, I’m sorry to tell. 
Dr. Dave Madow: Right. I guess she was on the sale, right? 
Dr. Rich Madow: Yup.
Dr. Dave Madow: Now, do you think obviously they’re paying a certain of money for this coupon, for this free dinner? Do you think she should have gone out on the [inaudible 20:03], if you don’t like that, let me see if I can get you another restaurant? Would that have been… you clearly said, I don’t like pizza, would that have been beyond the call of duty if you say, let me see if I can get you somewhere else? 
Dr. Rich Madow: Well, is there a fine line between beyond the call of duty and offering incredible customer service? What if she had said, “Well, everybody seems to love PizzaRev with their pizzas but for you, I’m sure we can work something else out. What kind of food do you like?” I mean, that could be like [crosstalk] conversation. 
Dr. Dave Madow: And even like a Starbucks coupon or something, something but not, you know, it just would take elevated to a higher level for sure. 
Dr. Rich Madow: That’s a great idea and now there’s right next to PizzaRev, there’s [inaudible 20:42] and this [crosstalk]. Do you like that?
Dr. Dave Madow: I’ll take it. 
Dr. Rich Madow: That would have been incredible sales. I think maybe it bothers me, but a great suggestion. And she did say something she said, is there a specific time I would like to come in? I can’t say I like that better than offering two good times because… I mean, again, she did that really well but if you say, is there a specific time and I say, I’d like to come in at 4 PM, you don’t have 4 PM, then you have to backtrack. So even if it was a good effort, I would have preferred fantastic, we can see it’s [inaudible 21:12]. Our start time will be tomorrow at 11 AM, which works best for you? Because once they offer a time and you don’t have that time, then you’re kind of pitching all, I don’t know if pitching all through it, but if you know what I mean. 
Dr. Dave Madow: Okay so we’re on this part of the call where I think we’re both going to agree she was fantastic. First of all, I love the question she asked. It is might not be for data but it was something like, well, what is it that you’re looking for in a new dentist? 
Dr. Rich Madow: Yeah, that was interesting. Those are the variant-
Dr. Dave Madow: Great question, I mean. So she’s in the top 1% because she was asking questions. 
Dr. Rich Madow: I might be disagreeing. 
Dr. Dave Madow: Oh really? Okay let’s hear it, I want to hear it. 
Dr. Rich Madow: Is what are you looking for in a new dentist really a great question? What’s the point? People don’t know what they’re looking for. I’m calling for the free dinner. Her job is to get me off the phone and do an appointment.
Dr. Dave Madow: Right. 
Dr. Rich Madow: Do you think most people when they see it in their respondents with an offer like this really know even any thoughts what they’re looking for in a new dentist? 
Dr. Dave Madow: Yeah, I think they do. I think everybody wants painless. Everybody wants let’s say affordable and somebody that’s caring. So I think if the person… if you or the person calling would have said any of those, yeah, I’m really anxious when I know there’s a dentist. I just want somebody that’s caring. That gives her ammunition to say, well, our doctor is really, really caring and gentle. I think [crosstalk], I don’t think it was bad. 
Dr. Rich Madow: Very well-taken. I think you could see I was maybe excessive like at that point just get the person in. But that might have been also after I may be clear that wasn’t right there to make an appointment. I can’t remember exactly.
Dr. Dave Madow: Maybe it was but I guess one of the reasons I’m saying this also is because she was in that top 1%, 99 point something percent of the dental practices out there would never even gone to that point. They would have said, okay, well, thanks, see you later. So at the very least, she took it to that level when she was engaging in conversation, asking questions, maybe another question but she asked a question and she did everything she could [crosstalk]. 
Dr. Rich Madow: She kept a positive conversation going. No question on that. And then, when I made it very clear I wasn’t going to appoint, at the very least, she got the contact. 
Dr. Dave Madow: She got your contact and that’s the top point 1% probably. 
Dr. Rich Madow: So I’ll tell you what, we cannot blame it on her that she didn’t know about the promotion.
Dr. Dave Madow: That’s a good point. 
Dr. Rich Madow: That’s the dentist or the marketing manager, it’s not her fault. So- 
Dr. Dave Madow: So she did everything right. 
Dr. Rich Madow: She did.
Dr. Dave Madow: That’s a really good point. That was not her fault. She shouldn’t have to come in everyday to the office, get the morning huddle and say, so doctor, are there any more promotions I need to know about? 
Dr. Rich Madow: She called it the advertisement and you really like call that much but she still, you know. 
Dr. Dave Madow: That’s fine.  
Dr. Rich Madow: So what grade are you going to give her?
Dr. Dave Madow: I’m giving her an A. I got to tell you, I’m giving that since we started this podcast when season 2, I think it’s the first A I’ve ever given. I believe. She has an A. 
Dr. Rich Madow: I’m going to give her an A also and I’d love to go share a pizza with her at PizzaRev. 
Dr. Dave Madow: That will be so nice. 
Dr. Rich Madow: I don’t think it’s ever going to happen but it will be fine. Maybe if we’re lecturing in that town, we’ll go to PizzaRev. And I will just see if there’s like a new dental patient sitting somewhere using our [inaudible 24:11]. How can you tell if there’s a new dental patient? I don’t know, they have pizza prime and-
Dr. Dave Madow: Hey, what kind of pizza [inaudible 24:20] or if they say to… they go up to the counter and say, I just got this certificate from my dentist, what can I buy then? How many pizzas can I get?  
Dr. Rich Madow: Have a pizza and a coke. The dentist is highly recommending coke. 
Dr. Dave Madow: Yeah, once slightly, oh you’re from Dr. so and so, you get one slice, yeah, one slice and a coke. 
Dr. Rich Madow: And chips and cake. Yes, sir. All right. Well hey, that is episode 10.
Dr. Dave Madow: Episode 10. 
Dr. Rich Madow: Episode 10, Season 2 of The Dental Practice Fixers Podcast. Thanks for being with us. Go give us a good rating on iTunes. We’d love it and we’d really appreciate you taking time to give us a review. Dr. Richard Madow. 
Dr. Dave Madow: Dr. David Madow, see you next time.
 
 

Doctor Creates a Tough Work Environment But Pays Well – Should Team Stay or Go

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A team member asks what can be done about the doctor. He comes in late every day, after the first patient is seated. He never says hello to anyone and it gets worse from there. Should the team members stay in this environment, even thought the pay is good? Listen to what The Dental Practice Fixers have to say. Then of course we do the call of the week. What happens when an office next to a certain well known landmark is asked to describe their location? Simple, right? Well, listen in to see how this one was handled! If you have a question that you would like answered on our podcast, please send it in to podcast@madow.com. We will do our best to get yours answered!


Doctor Creates a Tough Work Environment But Pays Well – Should Team Stay or Go


Female Voice: The Dental Practice Fixers Podcast is brought to you by the Madow Center For Dental Practice Success. To find out how we can help increase the success of your practice, check out madow.com or call us at 1800-258-0060.
[music playing]
Dr. David Madow: The dentist comes in late every single day. He never says hello, he doesn’t compliment. He’s confrontational, but he pays pretty well. You stay as a team member or do you leave? What do you do in this practice? We’re going to be talking about this Episode 8 of the Dental Practice Fixers Podcast. How are you doing? Dr. David Madow, along with Dr. Richard Madow.
Dr. Richard Madow: Hey, how’s everybody doing? In the old days in the podcasts when we used copyrighted music for each episode, this one would be – oh should I stay or should I go now.
Dr. David Madow: That might be copyrighted, we might not actually use this episode now.
Dr. Richard Madow: If the robotic team of Google can track my singing to the Clash, I’d be so flattered. I would care for…
Dr. David Madow: You always should say you’re a good…
[cross talking - 0:01:20.4].
Dr. David Madow: But this is a crazy situation. It sounds like this doctor is not very friendly or not really good to the team. Nobody likes coming in, but the pay is pretty good. So, what do they do? Do they stay? We’re going to talk about it.
Dr. Richard Madow: We’ll definitely find out.
Dr. David Madow: Along with the letter of this – by the way we have a great idea for a call today which we’re going to do just shortly.
Dr. Richard Madow: It’s going to be a good one.
Dr. David Madow: So welcome back. We’re glad to have you at Dental Practice Fixers Podcast.
Dr. Richard Madow: For those of you who are watching the video, you see two times in a row, we’re together at the studio. So it’s really good to be here. I have feeling the next one is going to be on the split screen. Split screen or something like that.
Dr. David Madow: One of those two. Should we get right into it Rich? Why don’t we read this question that comes from the listener or a viewer, by the way if you have a question, feel free to send it into us and we will get it. If it’s confidential, we’ll withhold your name. I’m not sure if this is going to be withheld or not but we’ll find out.
Dr. Richard Madow: We’ll find out in a second.
Dr. David Madow: But we’d love to help you out with any kind of question or situation or something going on with your dental practice. We are the Dental Practice Fixers. We want to fix so you practice.
Dr. Richard Madow: Well this person didn’t give their name, but they didn’t say anonymous. They gave like a Dear Abby type name.
Dr. David Madow: Oh I know what you mean.
Dr. Richard Madow: You know, like whatever. Lonely in Louisiana.
Dr. David Madow: Sleepless in Seattle.
Dr. Richard Madow: Exactly. Ask Amy, she’s the one, now the advice column in the newspaper.
Dr. David Madow: Oh wait the minute. That’s the Chinese restaurant?
Dr. Richard Madow: It’s a different – totally different Amy. It used to be Ann Landers and Dear Abby. I think there’s some other words now. Now it’s Ask Amy. I always wonder how many of those letters are actually real. Some of them just seem like a little too topical or a little bit too – the way that one piece works over the next to give the next answer. I always suspected that some of them are fake.
Dr. David Madow: I never thought about that. When we’re little kids we – dear letters, Dear Abby…
Dr. Richard Madow: You know, they were twin sisters.
Dr. David Madow: I didn’t know they were twins but I know they were sisters. That’s interesting.
Dr. Richard Madow: They’re both in Chicago.
Dr. David Madow: They both have the same vision to help people in life. That’s pretty cool.
Dr. Richard Madow: We feel it’s like growing up in their household. It’s probably horrendous.
Dr. David Madow: I think all the neighbors will come over like, what’s going on. So I want to give you an answer on paying you on this one.
Dr. Richard Madow: I think Ann Landers was not her real name.
Dr. David Madow: Well if you want to do that – what’s the Spencer…
Dr. Richard Madow: Mary Ann Spencer.
Dr. David Madow: Mary Ann Spencer. That was…
Dr. Richard Madow: Well she was a fictional character. Right?
Dr. David Madow: Yeah we heard there was fictional character. They were owned by like some Jewish company or something like that.
Dr. Richard Madow: Okay now we brought that up, Ann Landers and Dear Abby were Jewish as well.
Dr. David Madow: All these Jews today.
Dr. Richard Madow: I’m telling you man, okay you’ve got two of them right here. Ann Landers, Dear Abby, Mary Ann Spencer. That’s like the least Jewish name.
Dr. David Madow: Bruce Springsteen.
Dr. Richard Madow: Not Jewish. He’s Italian. He’s mom’s maiden name was [inaudible - 0:04:09.4].
Dr. David Madow: I’m glad you know that. I’m really glad you know that.
Dr. Richard Madow: Nobody else cares. Okay let’s get to our question. How did you – with some useless trivia about great musicians and advice columnists. This one said – I love the way she addressed this. Dear Dental Practice Fixers.
Dr. David Madow: Loved it.
Dr. Richard Madow: Please address this as the Dental Practice Fixers from now on. Dear Dental Practice Fixers, everyone in the office has a problem with our doc. He comes in late just about every day, after the first patient has already been seen. He never says hello to us, just expects us to jump to it. We never get thanked or shown any appreciation. He does pay us very well, and if anyone complains, he always points that out. I thought about quitting but I loved the patients too much and do like the pay. What is your advice? Frustrated dental assistant somewhere in Canada.
Dr. David Madow: Oh Canada, I love it.
Dr. Richard Madow: You couldn’t point out your province at least. Canada is a pretty large country.
Dr. David Madow: She didn’t say like “Eh” at all.
Dr. Richard Madow: No she didn’t.
Dr. David Madow: Frustrated.
Dr. Richard Madow: What’s your advice? Eh?
Dr. David Madow: I wonder if all Canadians say that.
Dr. Richard Madow: I thought they did.
Dr. David Madow: It’s like a prerequisite.
Dr. Richard Madow: They all say “about”.
Dr. David Madow: I’m going to go back to my host.
Dr. Richard Madow: What’s your advice about – and to The Dental Practice Fixers down south. I wonder how many Canadian listeners we have.
Dr. David Madow: We’re going to find out because they’re all going to be pissed off now.
Dr. Richard Madow: We love Canada and we’ll send you a looney [inaudible - 0:05:42.1]. So what do you think? What’s your take on this? What’s your advice? Frustrated dental assistant somewhere in Canada. Didn’t Marshall date a frustrated dental assistant somewhere in Canada?
Dr. David Madow: He dated a frustrated troll somewhere in Canada. I don’t know if she was a dental assistant.
Dr. Richard Madow: I think she was a dental assistant. She might have been there.
Dr. David Madow: I wonder if it’s the same one. So I’m going to give you my basic philosophy and this is kind of like very, very broad. It’s at least a head start. Life is short. I prefer to work in a job or business or profession. Whatever it might be, a place that I go to every day, that I really like. And in fact, studies have been done and say like, hey the amount of money you make is – although it might be important, it’s not the most important thing, but fulfillment, job satisfaction are like the most important things, being appreciated. So I would say that if you’re not working in an office that you’ll feel appreciated, you feel like you’re being abused or something. Let’s face it, you got a patient in a chair seated, ready to go. The doc is not even in the office yet. It’s a form of abuse I think. That’s not right.
Dr. Richard Madow: It’s the patient and [inaudible - 0:06:47.4].
Dr. David Madow: Yeah. It’s just not right. So I personally would not want to work in a practice like that. If you’re really good, you can find another practice that’s going to pay you well. Maybe better, many a tiny a bit less, but somewhere in the range I would think. And you being enjoying life every – no. Having said that, there’s nothing wrong with communicating with the doc and letting the doc know your frustration. Because nobody has talked to him or her about this. I think it’s worth the conversation. At least let the doc know that certain things are just not working for you and just not fair that you come in late. Patient’s in the chair, if you come in late every day, it’s not fair to the patients, it’s not fair to us. You never say hello, I don’t feel comfortable working here. Bring it up and see what the doc says.
Dr. Richard Madow: I agree with everything you said, and I think it’s interesting. You pointed out, studies have shown which you know what the heck that means. Studies have shown. We’ve all seen these numerous times. The pay is not at the top of what makes someone happy, and I think you hit the nail on the head as they say, being appreciated is always at the top or near the top of those lists. So obviously, frustrated somewhere in Canada and I don’t know where it could be. [inaudible - 0:07:54.9] maybe. [inaudible - 0:07:56.1]. I’m not sure. I think I mispronounced that. I think Canadians write in with that mispronunciation. Yeah people need to be appreciated and fulfilled at their job. And I think you’re right. It is worth trying to salvage. Don’t just quit. Have a talk with your doctor. I’m going to say maybe even get them a copy of the book “The Happiness Centered Practice” by Dr. Patty Lund. He addressed this. So many – it’s a great book, might a little outdated, but it doesn’t matter, you can pull so much from that great book. But I’m just like, thinking back to my practice. I’m not saying that I was perfect, but I knew from day one to make it a point to always be there. I’d like to be there first. I’ll always be there early. Greet every single team member as they come in. Hello, good morning Therese. It’s great to see you. Say thank you to everybody before they leave. Complement them in fact, throughout the day. Just to say like, hey well, oh my god, horrible.
Dr. David Madow: It may be sick to hear that one.
Dr. Richard Madow: If you do all these things correctly, you won’t have to pay that well.
Dr. David Madow: Because they’re paying half. It would be fun.
Dr. Richard Madow: And in fact, let me make a deal with you. I’ll be nice. I’ll be nice, pay you less. I mean this doc sounds a little bit of too much. And might be tough to cure.
Dr. David Madow: I’m not so sure he or she. I don’t know if it’s indicated as he or she.
Dr. Richard Madow: I think she said he.
Dr. David Madow: Oh he. I’m not so sure if he’s going to be able to change, but it’s worth the try. Because quitting, you know, it’s like anything, like any tremendous change. You’ll always try to make things better before you make a tremendous change. If you can’t make them better, then you got to see it’s on the other side I think.
Dr. Richard Madow: How many times have we heard team members complain that their doc gets in late? That the first patient at 8:30, and the doctor shows up at 8:45.
Dr. David Madow: A lot and it’s totally unacceptable.
Dr. Richard Madow: Horrible.
Dr. David Madow: You can’t run a practice like that.
Dr. Richard Madow: Don’t schedule a patient at 8:30 if you can’t make it there. Maybe you’ve got a reason or good solid reason why you can’t be there till 8:45. Well then don’t schedule an 8:30 patient. Lose that out. So your team member is telling your patients, oh fantastic news. We have early appointments. We have 8:30 but then they’re not seeing it at 8:30.
Dr. David Madow: But the doctor doesn’t show till it’s 8:45.
Dr. Richard Madow: Right. Sounds like they’re a little [inaudible - 0:10:03.8]. I left. And they recommended somebody else because the guy scheduled patients before he even got in. Why would anybody do that? And then you… could you imagine the tension; the doc finally gets in and everybody is all tense already. Then the doctor has no time to relax or do anything or talk to the team or see what’s going on. He has to jump right into the treatment room.
Dr. David Madow: What do you think about huddles every morning? They don’t have one.
Dr. Richard Madow: Non-existent.
Dr. David Madow: I mean, you got to get there early and just go over the day. It’s a business.
Dr. Richard Madow: I would say it’s a rule of thumb which is really not such a great time. But everybody should be there at least 30 minutes before the first patient scheduled.
Dr. David Madow: Absolutely.
Dr. Richard Madow: You know, some people like to wind down, get a cup of coffee, a little socialization. That’s all part of comradery. But you can’t do that if there’s a patient sitting in a chair. It’s ridiculous.
Dr. David Madow: Yeah. So what’s her name again?
Dr. Richard Madow: Let’s see. Most are not watching on the videos [cross talking - 0:11:00.1]. Frustrated dental assistant somewhere in Canada.
Dr. David Madow: Frustrated, and hopefully you can get this straightened out. We’d like you to be able to stay in the practice if your doc can work this out and you want everybody to enjoy their practice. But if not, time to move on I think.
Dr. Richard Madow: We never get thanked or shown any appreciation. We need [inaudible - 0:11:16.7].
Dr. David Madow: Well I’ll tell you what, we’re going to be the first people to thank you. Thank you so much for writing in. We appreciate you. We hope your doc appreciates you as much as we do, because we really do appreciate you.
Dr. Richard Madow: Docs who are listening, even if you think that you’re much better than this doctor in Canada, try to even do better than you’re doing now with your appreciation, with your good morning, with your thanks for coming in today. Say please and thank you all the time. Always being kind. Not gossiping, backstabbing, any of these things. Some nice doctors complain to us that their team is that way. But it always starts from the top. It always starts with great leadership. So please take this to heart and hopefully there won’t be too many frustrated dental assistants around anymore.
Dr. David Madow: Totally agree. Let’s get into the call of the week. But before we do that, we got some things to talk about. It will help you in your practice for sure.
Dr. Richard Madow: Yeah. A frequently asked question. An FAQ that we get is what’s it like to work with you guys with coaching? How does the whole thing work? And it’s a really tough question. It’s tough to explain the whole thing. Everybody wants to know what we do, what our secret mojo is to improve practices through our coaching because we do. That’s why people call us the Dental Practice Fixers. David and I thank you. David and I and our fantastic team of coaches really help practices grow. We really help dentists and team members enjoy their jobs more and what can be better than that? Making more money and enjoying your job more. So if you really want to find, if you’re really serious about finding out what it’s all about, come to our Masterclasses. They are no charge. They’re for docs who own practices who just want to learn a little more about what would it be like to work with us and our team. We have them throughout the year. Usually in Baltimore, at the home office of the Madow Center for Dental Practice Success. So go online, masterclass.madow.com. See what it’s all about, sign up for one, you get to hang with us Meet some of our great coaches, probably meet Sylvia and Whitney from Team Madow. Two of the nicest people you’ll ever get to meet. Along with Ann and Hope of course who are in our office every day. So come join us, we’d love to see you there. It could be the most valuable day you ever spend in dentistry.
Dr. David Madow: Yeah. I’d like to see you there. And while we’re talking about things that are going to help you in your practice, something that you’re doing now that you can be doing much better. There’s no question there. Because every dentist in North America I believe accepts credit cards.
Dr. Richard Madow: I hope so.
Dr. David Madow: We’re not sure. That could be like a whole another topic. But while you’re accepting credit cards, you’re paying fees through the process that are really not necessary. It’s a brand-new way to do this and we’re trying to spread the word all throughout North America. It’s called Fattmerchant. And what they do is there is a monthly fee. Monthly fee for Fattmerchant only and it’s a much easier, much newer way to process your credit cards and to save a lot of money every single month. You’ve got a lot of docs already. A lot of offices all over the country using this. We’re getting fantastic reviews. There’s really no reason to do it the old way and to pay excess fees that you shouldn’t be paying anymore. It’s simple, and the old days, to switch processors, you had to go through a whole regular [inaudible - 0:14:29.2] which is very complex. Now it’s basically a press and a click of a few buttons and maybe a phone call or so. And they get you changed really, really easy. It’s seamless, you don’t even know it’s happening. But you start to save money almost right away. Find out more, simply go to – if you’re watching the video, the link is going to be right below us. It’s BIT.LY/FATTMAD. So I’m going to spell the whole thing out for you in case you’re listening with the audio. BIT.LY/FATTMAD, and you’ll start – as I said, you’ll start saving money right away.
Dr. Richard Madow: Alright. I knew you’re going to use the word [inaudible - 0:15:13.2]. It was way in anticipation and sure enough, boom.
Dr. David Madow: You know, like five years ago, if you wanted to switch credit card processors, it’s a whole – it’s a must. Very difficult. Very very difficult. Now basically, click here, click there, they move you over to Fattmerchant and you’re saving money right away. I’d like to know why anybody wouldn’t do this.
Dr. Richard Madow: It’s a very low [inaudible - 0:15:38.1] factor.
Dr. David Madow: Very low [inaudible - 0:15:39.6].
Dr. Richard Madow: Sounds like [inaudible - 0:15:40.7] doesn’t it? Tonight it’s special [inaudible - 0:15:42.7].
Dr. David Madow: I’ll take it.
Dr. Richard Madow: Alright let’s do our call of the week. Are you ready?
Dr. David Madow: All set.
Voice Recording: This call maybe recorded for quality assurance.
[phone ringing]
Female Speaker: Good afternoon, thank you for calling. This is Kristine. How may I help you?
Dr. Richard Madow: Hi! Are you seeing new patients currently?
Female Speaker: Yes we are.
Dr. Richard Madow: Can you do cleanings and fillings and things like that?
Female Speaker: We do.
Dr. Richard Madow: And cosmetic dentistry too?
Female Speaker: Absolutely.
Dr. Richard Madow: Great. Can you tell me exactly where you’re located?
Female Speaker: Sure. We’re directly next to [inaudible - 0:16:23.8].
Dr. Richard Madow: Okay. Is that a strip center with other businesses, what are you near?
Female Speaker: It’s a strip center. There’s a coffee shop. We are directly across from the field where they have the beach volleyball, the sand.
Dr. Richard Madow: I think I know where that is. Okay. Are you next to that weed shop? I know where you are.
Female Speaker: Yeah.
Dr. Richard Madow: Okay. Now I know. Thank you so much for the information.
Female Speaker: You’re welcome.
Dr. Richard Madow: Okay, bye.
Female Speaker: Thank you.
Dr. Richard Madow: Bye. What do you think?
Dr. David Madow: I’ll tell you something. I loved that call. You know why I love it? it started off innocently like, what kind of dentistry do you do, do you this type of dentistry, do you do cosmetics? And then where are you located, you kind of led her right down and then finally, are you next to the weed shop?
Dr. Richard Madow: I got to tell our listeners; this is right next to my house. Like two blocks from where I live in downtown Baltimore. And there’s this kind of like this little old – it’s really not an area where there are strip centers because it’s very urban with mostly high-rise buildings. There’s this little like old strip center, used to have, I don’t know, like an old dinky real estate business and some neighborhood bank. And you know, the neighborhood bank kind of changed. They went out of business and then there’s really hip coffee shop one in there, and then another business is in there…
Dr. David Madow: I think I know that.
Dr. Richard Madow: Three B. And then another business went in there and then there [inaudible - 0:17:56.1]. This big beautiful medical marijuana store went in there. I mean there’s – you could just tell they put a lot of money into it.
Dr. David Madow: It’s like the Apple Store of marijuana.
Dr. Richard Madow: That’s what it looks like. I’ve never been in. But when you try and buy, you can see that it looks like an Apple store.
Dr. David Madow: I don’t know the part.
Dr. Richard Madow: It just looks beautiful. And then there was this little space still for rent next to the weed shop. A record store or a taco stand.
Dr. David Madow: A yoga studio.
Dr. Richard Madow: Something like that. And then the dentist office goes there which is so funny, but you couldn’t you tell like she was avoiding saying they’re next to the weed shop. We’re across the street from this or two [inaudible - 0:18:40.2] from this.
Dr. David Madow: But you know what I found that’s really funny, when you said, oh wait a minute. I think I know you. You were next to the weed shop. She was going like, yeah. Yeah we are.
Dr. Richard Madow: Like it’s still covert.
Dr. David Madow: It’s a weed shop. It’s legal.
Dr. Richard Madow: Perfectly legal. And honestly, when you drive by there, the largest signs of giving a landmark, you just could have said we’re next to the [inaudible - 0:19:03.1].
Dr. David Madow: But here’s the question. She did not ask for the appointment. I don’t think you said you know but you asked her a lot about the office like you’re going to be a new patient.
Dr. Richard Madow: Do you do cosmetic dentistry?
Dr. David Madow: Obviously you’re looking for a new dentist, but do you think the reason that she didn’t offer you a appointment is because she just generally doesn’t do that anyway or the fact that you mentioned the weed shop. She doesn’t like a stoner patient coming in now. What do you think?
Dr. Richard Madow: I think that they would probably enjoy a patient that was a little bit relaxed than stoned coming in. So I don’t think that’s it.
Dr. David Madow: I need 12 on this, oh yes sign me up right now.
Dr. Richard Madow: It’s legal in Maryland. Certainly nothing illegal that has a medical marijuana card. No I think she just didn’t know how to ask for an appointment. I would say if I said oh I know exactly where you are and you’re close to the beach volleyball…
Dr. David Madow: I think she would say would you like an appointment.
Dr. Richard Madow: Well not certainly.
Dr. David Madow: Well you said that we [inaudible - 0:19:55.6]. We don’t want stone…
Dr. Richard Madow: These volleyball, wholesome, athletic, healthy weed shop.
Dr. David Madow: We don’t know like a bunch of stoners lined up. 
Dr. Richard Madow: Or she should have said we have a 4:20 appointment.
Dr. David Madow: We would have given her A.
Dr. Richard Madow: Or any appointment if she would have said anything like this. Again, it seems to be a very typical pattern. Some of the people on the phone are just horrible. But many like her, super nice, very kind with information. Didn’t ask for the appointment.
Dr. David Madow: Yeah. Next time you’re anywhere near the weed shop, just stop in the dental place and say hey I’m the one that called. Hey man you’re next to the weed shop.
Dr. Richard Madow: We don’t know exactly – they’re like playing Pink Floyd and Bob Marley.
[cross talking - 0:20:40.1]
Dr. Richard Madow: Capitalize on it.
Dr. David Madow: Absolutely. No question.
Dr. Richard Madow: I’ll make a special section for the people coming right from the shop.
Dr. David Madow: The weed shop. It’s a great call. I love the way you just started off gently and let her right and then the last thing was, oh wait a minute, you’re next to the weed shop. It was so good.
Dr. Richard Madow: Nevertheless, she should have asked for the appointment. And you know what, I was very careful not to turn it into an obvious phony phone call and starting asking crazy questions like can I come in stoned or you have a 4:20 appointments. You know that, it’s not what we’re after. So we don’t want to make it into a comedy call or a phony phone call. Those are legit calls from somebody who knew the businesses in the area, and she did not try to get them to come in by offering the appointment. Got to say F.
Dr. David Madow: I agree, F and listen, whoever is watching and listening to us, we say it every time, offer the appointment and you’ll be getting at least a B+ probably.
Dr. Richard Madow: Maybe even an A. So hey we’d love to answer your questions, give it to us. podcast@madow.com or whatever you want to do. Message us on Facebook, call the office, it doesn’t matter. Get us your question however you can. You go onto our website madow.com and click and have a little chat. Hope will – she’ll take care of you. Whatever it takes. Get us your questions. So hey, fantastic Episode 9 Season 2 of the Dental Practice Fixers. Thanks for being with us. I’m Dr. Richard Madow.
Dr. David Madow: Dr. David Madow, we will see you next time. Thanks for being with us.
[music playing]

A Confrontation With a Patient Ends With a Bad Online Review

By | Episodes | No Comments

A doctor asks what he should do about a bad online review he received from a pissed off patient. It appears as thought the patient did not want radiographs and there ended up being a communication breakdown. After hearing the story, there were definitely some steps that Rich and Dave would have recommended that likely could have mitigated this bad situation. Then of course we do the call of the week. What happens when a potential new patient calls a dental office with a bad tooth to see if it better to have it saved with a root canal or extracted? Not too tough of a question, right? Let’s see how this was handled! If you have a question that you would like answered on our podcast, please send it in to podcast@madow.com. We will do our best to get yours answered!


A Confrontation With A Patient Ends With A Bad Online Review

 Voice Recording: The Dental Practice Fixers Podcast is brought to you by the Madow Center for Dental Practice Success. To find out how we can help increase the success of your practice, check out madow.com or call us at 1-800-258-0060.
[Music Playing]
Dr. Richard Madow: What happens when a new patient comes in, it’s a little bit of a confrontation or disagreement with the dentist that winds up threatening to put a bad review on Yelp. We’re going to find out that exact situation today or Season 2, Episode 8 of the Dental Practice Fixers Podcast. Hey, I’m Dr. Richard Madow: here with my co-host Dr. David Madow. How is it going today Dave?
Dr. David Madow: I’m Dr. David Madow. It feels great man. For once in a while we’re in – a lot of times it’s split screen, but I can touch him. We’re in the same room.
Dr. Richard Madow: Mom he touched me. He started it.
Dr. David Madow: We’re in the same room. Believe it.
Dr. Richard Madow: I’m a little bit uncomfortable actually. We’re very close today. We’ll it is fun being back in the home studio today. Welcome everybody for Season 2, Episode 8. So we’ve got a fantastic listener question today about a really odd situation, but I think it’s the kind of thing that could absolutely happen to any of our listeners out there if it hasn’t yet.
Dr. David Madow: I think we’re going to make a really great phone call at the end like we usually do. Our weekly phone call, this is going to be awesome today.
Dr. Richard Madow: We don’t have a time. It’s going to be awesome. It’s amazing.
Dr. David Madow: When we ask a question like this, it’s going to be awesome. I promise.
Dr. Richard Madow: Yeah. Alright, so I can’t remember what’s been happening since our last episode of the Dental Practice Fixers but what do you say let’s get ready down to it. It’s a really interesting question from the listener and I know we’re going to have fun. Some great comments for us. So Dave why don’t you take it away. I think you got this on some kind of a messaging service. What’s App, I don’t know what it was.
Dr. David Madow: One of our followers, subscribers, messaged us and then also he made it very clear and you’ll see why I withhold the name and so if you ever have a question, if you want something answered on our show and you want to keep it totally confidential, private message us and make sure you make it clear and we can probably tell to withhold your name. We’ll make it confidential.
Dr. Richard Madow: I think there’s a better chance if it’s a really good question if somebody wants their name withheld.
Dr. David Madow: I agree. Totally agree.
Dr. Richard Madow: Well you know, I’ll tell you when they give their names, that might be fake names.
Dr. David Madow: I will warn you though, this question is a little bit messy but I’ve got to read the whole thing because you’re going to see what happens in this – this is a crazy situation. Okay here we go. I’m going to read it slow though so please, well you have to hear every single word of this. It’s amazing. Dear Madow Brothers, I just had a new patient come in to my office. He wanted a cleaning, so we said great. Let’s get some x-rays so we can do an exam. He said, I don’t want x-rays.
Dr. Richard Madow: A little sound effect when he doesn’t want x-rays.
Dr. David Madow: So I gave him a long explanation of why we need them and how we use the most advanced technology to reduce radiation. He said okay so we get four bite wings, and as we’re going over to the panoramic area he said I don’t want to do this anymore. Well you can’t make this stuff up.
Dr. Richard Madow: I quit.
Dr. David Madow: So we haven’t talked about how I can get sued for malpractice if I do a comprehensive exam without either a full mouth series or a pan. He then threats me with a bad online review for making him get x-rays he didn’t need. Then I said, I didn’t hold you down.
Dr. Richard Madow: He actually said that.
Dr. David Madow: I didn’t hold you down. I didn’t bind and gag you. I wasn’t part of it. I explained why I need them and that you elected to get them. You could have left whenever you wanted and I know what you’re trying to do. You’re trying to blackmail me with a bad review. Then he tries to rationalize the bad review saying: So I can’t tell people my experience and I said, are you going to put in the review about how you’re trying to blackmail me with said review to commit malpractice. And he replied, this never happens in California. What? He left and he left a bad review. What can I do? Name withhold by request.
Dr. Richard Madow: They need to be addressed.  Would start with one. When you’re reading that whole convoluted situation.
Dr. David Madow: I know exactly what you think.
Dr. Richard Madow: Whisper to me. You point to it.
Dr. David Madow: Okay I’ll tell you right now. It starts right here.
Dr. Richard Madow: Exactly. I’ll tell you what it is. Those of you watching the video. Why in the hell would a dentist ever utter the word malpractice? When you’re talking to a patient, if I don’t do this, you can sue me for malpractice. That just paints the worst picture. Puts ideas in their head, brings up things that never should be brought up. Why would you ever, ever use the word malpractice or insinuate that you’re doing anything that’s wrong or unethical or could be doing anything that – because you agreed, because you point it to her right away to it.
Dr. David Madow: That’s the thing. There’s so many bad things in the question, but that’s the thing. Why would you ever bring up so you can sue me for malpractice. Yeah put the idea right in there.
Dr. Richard Madow: Why don’t you tell someone to get some cheap ass crazy lawyer that has a billboard on the I10 since we’re in California.
Dr. David Madow: I guess this patient moved somewhere from California so this never had to…
Dr. Richard Madow: Why put any kind of idea like that, you know, patients that – ridiculous. That’s the one thing I want to point out.
Dr. David Madow: The overall total of this, the whole scenario. What’s your thoughts?
Dr. Richard Madow: You know what’s interesting. I think the dentist sent this in trying to get like a sympathetic ear from us, but I think that dentist did so many things wrong. I think they were kind of asking for it. Agreed?
Dr. David Madow: I think the dentist was kind of confrontational – the patient might have been an asshole. There’s no question. I’m getting from this, the dentist was kind of new and inexperienced because I think an experienced dentist would not have done half of these things. First of all, he said he went through a long explanation of why we need it or how we use them. You’re pretty much – let’s make sure it’s simple.
Dr. Richard Madow: There could be interproximal carries that the radiographs…
Dr. David Madow: That’s your dental voice.
Dr. Richard Madow: You heard it before.
Dr. David Madow: There’s so many things. I explained why I need them.
Dr. Richard Madow: Let’s get back to a more basic question maybe. And then we’ll talk a whole bit…
Dr. David Madow: Okay let’s do that.
Dr. Richard Madow: What do you do when a patient refuses x-rays? I think this dentist almost coerced or twisted the patient’s arm into doing something they weren’t comfortable with and it’s never good when you twist the patient’s arm into doing something they’re not comfortable with.
Dr. David Madow: Right. But that opens up a whole another question. We as dentists feel that we need radiographs to make a proper diagnosis, and forget even the malpractice. But we just feel like not doing radiographs, you’re not getting the whole picture. Do we want to see a patient that’s refusing radiographs?
Dr. Richard Madow: I say no. Tell them to walk. Can you imagine if you went to your physician and they said we want to do this image. No. I refuse that. Then you’re out of here. Done. I cannot treat you ethically and in good conscience without a proper diagnosis. I can’t do that without x-rays. I think maybe you should find a dental practice that’s more suited to your philosophy. You don’t have to treat every patient that walks through the door especially one that’s telling you what to do.
Dr. David Madow: Yeah because chances are, a patient is already telling you what to do. I don’t like x-rays, I don’t believe in x-rays. Let’s face it, they’re going to be a kook. All the things that happen, they don’t want this, they don’t want that or questioning every step in a way. Like you just said, you don’t have to treat every patient. Make your life enjoyable. Make your profession enjoyable. Treat the patients that are aligned with you.
Dr. Richard Madow: And then what happens? Patient goes, leave a bad review on Yelp. Now this patient probably would have done the same if you’d kicked them out, but at least you have some ground to stand on that. Could you imagine if your car was like spewing smoke out the back and you took it into the mechanic and they sort of, okay we need to hook it up to this machine and sort of figure it out. [cross talking - 0:09:02.3].
Dr. David Madow: My car is not getting hooked up on that machine. I don’t believe in that machine.
Dr. Richard Madow: I’m telling you to walk, drive, run or be towed the heck out of there.
Dr. David Madow: [inaudible - 0:09:10.4] some of the language.
Dr. Richard Madow: It’s possible.
Dr. David Madow: There’s so many problems with this thing. So let’s talk about for a second. So then he got a bad review on Yelp and this dentist could have prevented it by doing some things differently and from your occasion with this patient, the patient might have been a wacko. I don’t know. But okay, so he got a bad review on Yelp. Now what, what do you do?
Dr. Richard Madow: Well again, speaking of [inaudible - 0:09:36.4], it’s never really you’ll get wacko patients. It’s inevitable that you get a bad review on Yelp or Google or whatever site people are [inaudible - 0:09:43.5]. As we know, the thing you don’t want to do is get into some back and forth with the crazy patient on Yelp. We discussed this before. Some of the strategies going and just kind of in a really nice non-confrontational way, tell your side of the story and say you love to welcome the chance to bring them back to the practice. This person you probably don’t want to come back to the practice.
Dr. David Madow: But say even if you don’t want it. Say it anyway on that to make it look good. And if they call, say I’m going to come back and say no…
Dr. Richard Madow: [inaudible - 0:10:15.1] I’m going back or they don’t want you back and [inaudible - 0:10:18.3].
Dr. David Madow: Yeah. But never get confrontational on Yelp or…
Dr. Richard Madow: Never say this patient was a jerk or anything like that.
Dr. David Madow: And also a lot things lately like whether it’s an automotive service place or hotel or restaurant that gets a bad review. The good ones have somebody that’s – you can tell there’s somebody in charge of it. Always come on and say we’re so sorry you did not have a positive experience then you have to say a few more words and say you’re always welcome back or always trying to make our service better. It’s the best way to go.
Dr. Richard Madow: I don’t know if you use TripAdvisor a lot. I don’t use TripAdvisor.
Dr. David Madow: I’m only a Yelp guy.
Dr. Richard Madow: Yeah. Well I use it for hotels. And no matter how great a hotel is, they screw up, they get bad reviews. And as you said, they’re really well-managed. It’s almost like a script which is fine. The manager of the hotel goes, we’re so sorry you had this experience. They don’t blame it on the hotel guest. They say things like this helps us to improve and we want to have you back to show you what kind of five star experience we can offer. Something on those lines.
Dr. David Madow: If you’re looking for a hotel and you’ll see you zeroed in on a hotel on TripAdvisor and you’ll see two or three bad ones like that, but you see 500 great reviews, you’re probably going to stay there. Right?
Dr. Richard Madow: I think that two or three were probably crackpots.
Dr. David Madow: Yes. But if you go on to a hotel site and you see 50 good reviews but 38 horrible reviews. You’re probably not going to stay there. So our advice to this dentist that wrote in and anybody else that’s listening or watching, hopefully watching us now on YouTube. You’ve got to really make sure your communication skills are up to – I think this dentist needs a little practice and with experience he or she will get better. But if this happens again and again and you continue to get bad reviews on Yelp, that’s going to definitely impact your practice for sure.
Dr. Richard Madow: I didn’t hold you down. You could have left whenever you wanted. I wanted to give this dentist a bad review too. What a jerky think to say.
Dr. David Madow: Well it’s horrible language, I didn’t hold you down. Why ever talk like that? Your communication skills need some improvement. You’re going to continue to get more reviews like this. I hate to say.
Dr. Richard Madow: And possibly soon. So we really appreciate that you wrote in and we don’t, it’s not our goal to start saying that docs who write in are doing all these things incorrectly but hopefully this will be a good learning experience. You please, doc use this as a learning experience. Don’t get confrontational with your patients. You don’t have to treat somebody that’s telling you what to do, but always be kind and gentle when you communicate with patients. There’s no need to use this kind of language, and certainly don’t bring up anything like malpractice.
Dr. David Madow: You and I had practices for a long time. We practiced separately, we both made tons of mistakes, but you learn from it. We’re not knocking you personally. You wrote this in. We’re not making fun of you, but you got to learn from your mistakes. Don’t let this happen again. Make sure your communication skills are getting better every time.
Dr. Richard Madow: Absolutely. Great, great. Thanks so much for writing in. We hope we didn’t skewer you too badly and just stick with us on the Dental Practice Fixers and hopefully you’ll learn.
Dr. David Madow: Should we do the call of the week?
Dr. Richard Madow: Let’s do the call of the week, but before we do the call of the week, I just want to mention I got the most amazing – I think we both got it actually, the dentist, they said they listen to Dental Practice Fixers, they took our advice, they got Fattmerchant for credit card processing in their practice, and they said, it was just like you said, completely seamless. I’m not being charged an overage percentage and I’m saving money each and every month. The patients don’t know the difference. Nobody knows who you’re using for credit card processing. Fattmerchant is the best, and if you’re a friend of ours, they’ll give you a free terminal. So just make it brief, find out why Fattmerchant is the best in credit card processing, why you’ll save money very single month and they’ll give you the free terminal if you’re an FOM. A friend of Madow.
Dr. David Madow: FOM, I like that.
Dr. Richard Madow: Bitly’s B I T. L Y/FATTMAD. Check out Fattmerchant for incredible credit card processing. BIT.LY/FATTMAD and you’ll see us on there wearing much nicer clothes and a little more made up and looking better than this too. That’s your extra bonus.
Dr. David Madow: Yeah on the website we look better.
Dr. Richard Madow: Well they think you look better. I know I’m kind of look back up but maybe a little bit.
Dr. David Madow: I can see it. Like a little face lift.
Dr. Richard Madow: Exactly. Exactly like that.
Dr. David Madow: While we’re helping you with your practice, every episode of the Dental Practice Fixers, we’re trying to – we have a topic, we have somebody that writes in, we try to give the best advice possible, but let’s face it, as great as this is and it’s pretty darn good though. We think it’s probably one of the top podcasts in dentistry these days.
Dr. Richard Madow: It’s in the top 500.
Dr. David Madow: Absolutely in the top 500. But if you really want to crank up in your practice, you want to reach a level of success, you just haven’t been able to do on your own. We recommend checking out our Masterclass for dentists. It’s a full day, we bring you in – generally we bring you into Baltimore where we like to hang, and occasionally we travel a little bit but don’t count on that at all. But it’s a full day of talking, discussing. We have our coaches there and it’s a pretty intense day, and we share with you what it’s actually like and how we can help you by working with one of our coaches. And so, if you want to increase your practice, you just can’t do it on your own. And let’s face it, most dentists can’t do it on their own. We want to share with you how we can help you predictably get to that level that you just haven’t been able to achieve. So, if you want to know more, go to masterclass.madow.com. Check us out. We’d love to have you. We keep Masterclasses very intimate. Somewhere between 8 and 12 docs only. We don’t let these get too big and you do need to own a practice to be able to come to the Masterclass. You’ve got to be a doctor, actually a practice owner.
Dr. Richard Madow: It’s so cool how so many people that have attended have told us it was one of the best days they ever spent in dentistry and really was the day that turned things around for them and upped them on the graph. So yeah, we’d love to see you in Masterclass. Cool, let’s do our call of the week. What do you say?
Dr. David Madow: Let’s get into it. Alright.
[phone ringing]
Female Voice: Thank you for choosing [inaudible - 0:16:36.0] How can I help you?
Dr. David Madow: Hi I’ve got a question for you. I’m kind of new in the area. I’ve got a tooth that is pretty bad. Do you all generally recommend like a root canal or extrapolating the tooth. What is the recommended treatment?
Female Speaker: It’s hard to say what the recommended treatment is, based on the fact that we really don’t know and we don’t have a diagnosis from the doctor. If the tooth is bothering you in a sense that is keeping you up at night, if it’s constantly just dull throbbing pain, that usually is indicative of needing a root canal. However, if it’s just a deep cavity or some decay that has affected the nerve of the tooth, that also could indicate a root canal. It depends on how severe it is, it could also be probably be an extraction. Just depending on how severe, if it’s like a chipped or broken or fractured tooth. Sometimes we can save it with a root canal and crown, sometimes it would need to be extracted.
Dr. David Madow: Do root canals hurt? I’ve heard bad things about them.
Female Speaker: Root canal is used to be kind of traumatic but dentistry honest to god has come so far with just managing all of that. It’s a lot better experience now than it was with say maybe even 10 years ago. Dr. [inaudible - 0:17:58.2] uses the most up to date technology, and honestly, you can even go back to work right after. It’s not a stronger thing.
Dr. David Madow: Gotta find a job. That’s a bad joke. Well thank you. You were really really helpful. I really appreciate that. Thank you so much.
Female speaker: Of course, my pleasure, no problem. Thank you.
Dr. David Madow: Thank you, bye.
Dr. Richard Madow: Wow good call. What do you think?
Dr. David Madow: Well let me tell you something. I was ready to give her an A plus. She was pleasant. I thought she answered the questions great. Yeah, I asked her if root canal hurts, and she didn’t even laugh when I asked her about extrapolation. She’s well with the flow, which is good. I asked her if it hurts, she gave a great explanation how they used to but now with modern technology and the doctor is so great.
Dr. Richard Madow: Doctor who?
Dr. David Madow: Edit that out. But the only problem is – the huge problem is at the very end, she didn’t ask for the appointment. She did everything perfectly.
Dr. Richard Madow: Well I’m not sure I agree with that. Yeah I agree that not asking the appointment is the killer.
Dr. David Madow: What did she do?
Dr. Richard Madow: I thought she went into way… She used the word “indicative” which I didn’t like. I think she wanted to give way too much clinical detail. I mean she was very knowledgeable. She spoke on the level that anybody could understand and that’s really great. So often we see people speak way over the patient’s head. So she did that very well but I think she give way too much information. I think she should have said – she said we can’t tell without the doctor taking a look and giving a diagnosis. So at that point, why not say, why don’t you come on in here for a free consultation. She went into so many – it’s this, it’s that, and the patient is going to remember. You said that if it keeps them up at night… Again, she was really good with the information, but I think you’ve kind go down the rabbit hole and start giving too much information. I think she should have gone for the close much earlier by saying. We really can’t tell what it needs over the phone. Why don’t you come right in for a consultation? But the things she said were great. She was very knowledgeable, very pleasant, spoke on a good patient understanding level. All those were…
Dr. David Madow: Would you agree with thing Rich, would you agree that even though she might have gotten a little too clinical, would you agree if in the end she would have said, we’d love to get you in to take a look at this. I have Monday afternoon at 4:00 or Tuesday morning at 10:00. Would you give her the A?
Dr. Richard Madow: A minus.
Dr. David Madow: A minus. Okay that’s pretty good because most people get an F. I want to share something with you guys. You guys that are listening or watching. If your front desk person simply made it a point to ask every single caller for an appointment and offer 2 good options, basically you’d be getting As.
Dr. Richard Madow: And more new patients.
Dr. David Madow: That’s right. Even if only 20% of that came out with some excuse and the other ones wouldn’t appoint. But 20% by you saying would you like to make an appointment. I have such and such time or such and such time. You’d be so far ahead of the game. It’s not even funny.
Dr. Richard Madow: In this call it’s like, you said I don’t know if it needs an extrapolation or root canal. If at that very point, she would have said, well I’ll tell you what, let’s bring you in to find out.
Dr. David Madow: That would have been best.
Dr. Richard Madow: I mean she was very well-spoken but that would have been best.
Dr. David Madow: She was well-spoken.
Dr. Richard Madow: That would have been better. We’d love to see you as our new patient.
Dr. David Madow: Ask her, boom appointment. Ask for the appointment. How many episodes and how many seasons do we have to do…
Dr. Richard Madow: By the time we get to season 10, every dental practice in the country is going to be asking. That’s our goal. We’re not going to quit until it happens.
Dr. David Madow: And then we have to go on Canada and Mexico. And we’re going to take over the world. Every office in the world is going to ask for an appointment. We’re going to have to know every language.
Dr. Richard Madow: You mean like an office in Papua New Guinea?
Dr. David Madow: Absolutely. No question.
Dr. Richard Madow: Guam?
Dr. David Madow: Oh definitely Guam. Guam is part of the US.
Dr. Richard Madow: My good buddy from dental school, Dr. Andrew [inaudible - 0:22:10.1] practices in Guam. I don’t know if he listens to the Dental Practice Fixers from there but if he does…
Dr. David Madow: Yeah he will be. We’re going to send him this episode.
Dr. Richard Madow: As far as you can get from where we are in the East Coast and in US. I wonder if they recommend … in Guam for their patients.
Dr. David Madow: Oh man I think that wraps episode 8. Thanks for being with us. By the way if you have a question, comment, you know how to get us. Well, podcast@madow.com that’s one easy way. Facebook, you’ll find us, communicate with us. YouTube now is even easier. You just comment on the actual episode. We want to hear from you with The Dental Practice Fixers. We’ll see you next time.
Dr. Richard Madow: Thumbs up on YouTube, good review on ITunes. We really appreciate it. Thanks everyone.
[music playing]
 
 

 

Dentist Whispering to Patient

A Prosthodontist is Humiliating and Degrading the General Dentists in the Community

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Welcome back to The Dental Practice Fixers podcast, dentistry’s most unique show! This week we received information that a prosthodontist in Colorado is spreading information in her community, basically telling the public that general dentists are ill-equipped to do their dentistry and why the only choice is to see a prosthodontist. Rich and Dave look into this situation and reveal what they discover. And it’s not pretty. Then of course we do the call of the week. What happens when a simple call is place to an office by a potential new patient asking for just a little information about the doctor. Easy, right? Well listen in to see how this one was handled! If you have a question that you would like answered on our podcast, please send it in to podcast@madow.com. We will do our best to get yours answered!


A Prosthodontist is Humiliating and Degrading the General Dentists in the Community


[Music Playing] 
Dr. David Madow: Hello there and welcome to The Dental Practice Fixers Podcast. This is Episode seven, Season two. I am one of your hosts, Dr. David Madow. I'm going to be bringing in my co-host right there in just a couple seconds, but this is actually our second episode that we're doing a live video so not only can you continue to listen on iTunes and all the other, of course, audio episode apps that are out there but episode audio podcast apps, I should say, but now we have our very own YouTube channel, The Dental Practice Fixers where you can watch us in our studios. By the way, we're on different sides of the planet. I'm in Salt Lake, Rich is in Baltimore, Maryland. But not only can you see us through this live, kind of live but you can interact with us. You can comment, you can like, you can ask questions, and right on the YouTube channel, under each episode, we're going to be... we can interact with you. So, we're, we're really excited. I'll bring my buddy, business partner, brother, Dr. Rich into the, into the episode. What do you... what's going on? [Crosstalk] up to? What's going?
Dr. Richard Madow: It is great to be here for Episode Seven, actually the second video episode. Now, I suspect most people are still listening to audio only and that's fine so [crosstalk].
Dr. David Madow: Oh, I don't know.
Dr. Richard Madow: That way but yeah.
Dr. David Madow: I don't know.
Dr. Richard Madow: And if you're curious what we look like for better or worse, for richer or for poorer, whatever, join us on YouTube, it's fun. You know, I notice and I don't think this is going to happen with The Dental Practice Fixers, I watch music videos, and music instructional videos, and music analysis, all kinds of things like that on YouTube and it seems like the conversations in the comments start off kind of normal and then they degrade into insults and politics and just all this low-level shit. I just don't understand why people do it. So, if you're going to comment about The Dental Practice Fixers even if it's a criticism or critique, please be kind. There's just no reason to be unkind, or personal, or mean, just it doesn't help you, I needed to do that.
Dr. David Madow: It's funny, Rich. I think people like on Facebook for them... now, it is for the most part, people are fairly kind on Facebook but then when you get into YouTube, it starts degrading a little bit and the absolute worst is Twitter people who are just like trolling and saying really, really mean things. It just goes downhill from there. So, hopefully we're kind of in the middle of Facebook and Twitter so hopefully people will be semi-kind.
Dr. Richard Madow: I don't do anything on Twitter. I just don't... I'm just... I'm not saying it's right, it's not wrong, I just don't do Twitter. Twitter, hate Twitter, I just don't do it. And now I'm now I'm even more glad I don't do it when you told me that things get degraded really quickly.
Dr. David Madow: It really, it really does. But YouTube there's definitely some trolls out there that will-
Dr. Richard Madow: Oh God, horrible.
Dr. David Madow: You'd be very mean for some, I don't know for some they like... people would just like hiding behind a keyboard for some reason. I'm not really sure but-
Dr. Richard Madow: I just don't understand why if you don't agree with somebody's opinion, you have to insult them personally.
Dr. David Madow: Right.
Dr. Richard Madow: Just tell them why you think they're, you know, your opinion is different and maybe try to convince them to your opinion but don't attack them personally.
Dr. David Madow: Right. And then if that doesn't work, you can just say, well, you're an asshole but [crosstalk].
Dr. Richard Madow: That might work and maybe it's true but I [laughs]. I see people have been commenting on your post a lot.
Dr. David Madow: Of course, yeah [laughs].
Dr. Richard Madow: All right. Hey again, thanks for that intro. Welcome to The Dental Practice Fixers. Let's get right to this because we've got a... it's kind of a question but you'll see what it is. It's, it's really crazy. It comes from our good friend, Dr. Joanne Rief, and if you've been around us for a while, maybe you've heard her name. She's participated in The Madow Brothers Audio Series many times. You've probably seen her and her fabulous team at TBSE in Las Vegas. She posts on The Dental Place sometimes. She's a really good person, a great dentist, fantastic practice. She takes so much continuing education. Is she ever actually in the office? I know you're her patient. Is she ever there?
Dr. David Madow: She's always taking CE.
Dr. Richard Madow: There's always a sign on the door that says like 'Closed for CE'.
Dr. David Madow: Out for CE. 
Dr. Richard Madow: Right, gone fishing. Anyway, she's very informed, she knows a lot of things, and she keeps me and Dave abreast of a lot of developments in dentistry. And this is one that she sent that I thought was just fascinating. It says, "Saw this," I'm reading this, "Saw this on Mommy Dentists in Business," that's a Facebook group, Mommy Dentists, I don't know, Mommy Dentist in Business.
Dr. David Madow: Mommy.
Dr. Richard Madow: Exactly. Shut up, kid. It's an ad by a Denver prosthodontist that was put on her blog along with other blogs that put down general dentists and touted why patients should go to a prosthodontist. She even stated in her blog that she sued the dentist that she bought the practice from. Then, it goes on to say she was super criticized and wound up taking down the blog. And then, Joanne, I hope you don't mind if I read this but your closing sentence is, "This woman has balls." I don't know if I ever met a woman with balls. But anyway, I think you mean that metaphorically.
Dr. David Madow: Maybe.
Dr. Richard Madow: So, what's Joanne talking about? We decided to check it out. We checked out this prosthodontist blog. She's a prosthodontist in Colorado. We won't give her name or the name of her practice but first on her blog, there's like this big ad comparing prosthodontists to general dentists. The font size is so small, I can hardly read it but it's like this big flow chart saying why prosthodontists are great and why general dentists suck, and it's comparing implants and said says things like, "General and cosmetic dentists have minimal formal training with dental implants. Their knowledge is often from evening and weekend courses." And she goes on to say that, "They make crappy temporaries, they use bad labs, they don't know how to maintain implants," all these things criticizing general dentists, why prosthodontists are better. Then, she's got this next blog called 'Why didn't any dentist refer me to you?' And she's saying that patients complain but why didn't my dentist send me to a prosthodontist? And she says, "Here's why. Number one, they think they can do the work themselves. Number two, they need the revenue. The market saturated with dentists; referring patients can be costly even if it's the right thing to do. Then three, they think the prosthodontist might criticize their work. Then they're saying, she keeps give some crazy example that a general dentist can refer to an endodontist but the root canal specialist knows that your dentist is using cheap labs and they do bad work but they don't tell you because they want to keep the referrals coming." Another blog, "Do you really need that crown? No, you might not need that crown so why did your general dentist tell you, you need a crown? Well, there are a few reasons. One is money. Two is they've had a bad education, and three is they're overzealous to do treatment such as CEREC, which involves removing way too much tooth structure and, and, and charging four times as much." One more blog, "How I first learned about the dark side of dentistry?" [Crosstalk] practice she bought where the dentist was over diagnosing, over treating, overdoing, overcharging, and she wound up suing them, the dark side of dentistry. Wish you were here. What do you think? It's unbelievable.
Dr. David Madow: Unbelievable, does not even halfway describe it. I don't even know what to say other than that first of all I think she's a... she's a bitch. I hate to say it.
Dr. Richard Madow: And she has balls.
Dr. Richard Madow: Unbelievable. Okay, obviously what she said is horrible. It sounds to me like she's like desperate. But I'll take this back to something that Rich you and I learned many, many, I'd say several decades ago. You probably remember this. Back in the old, old, old days when we were very new at our dental conference, TBSE, by the way if you don't know about TBSE, check it out, tbse.com stands for The Best Seminar Ever. But Rich, we were sometimes guilty of instead of like when we had marketing and advertisements and then talking about our seminar, we were sometimes guilty, I will admit this, that maybe trying to knock down other seminars and say maybe bad things about other seminars. But I remember somebody once messaged us and said, "Hey guys, guys listen, you, you guys are the best. You've got the best seminar ever, that's why it's called that. You guys are on top of your game. Why stoop low and not see competition when you guys are already the best?" And both of us thought about that we said, you know something... you're right. And from now on we just talked about the benefits of coming to TBSE and how it can help you and your practice so we never took stabs at other dental seminars. It just wasn't worth it. And this woman if she's that good, if she's that good, all she has to do is prove it by doing great work, being kind to her patients, building a practice that way, and saying good things. You know in these days Rich, we say good things about other dental conferences because they're so really, really good out there, most of them are great, most of them are really good.
Dr. Richard Madow: Yeah. Kind of shooting yourself in the foot too because a prosthodontist wants referrals from general dentists. And some of the things she said anybody with half a brain how do you know my general dentist uses a cheap lab? How do you know my general dentist is overcharging? How do you know they're, they're desperate for revenue? You're making some blanket statements here that are completely false. Well, that was a blanket statement also, making some blanket statements here that are typically false. It's just... it's unbelievable and who is going to... I think maybe this also opens up a broader discussion about the relationship between general dentists and specialists. Maybe these days it's more frustrating than ever being a specialist because with advances in technology and fantastic hands-on CE courses, general dentists are doing more treatment than ever that used to be called specialty treatment. But we're both general dentists, Dave. We know you need fantastic specialists who you trust to refer to. You need fantastic specialists who are going to compliment you when they come in and say, "Oh that root canal looks great. This crown looks cool," whatever it is. You don't need this kind of BS. How can that be good for anyone? 
Dr. David Madow: This is just so disheartening and, you know, like in anything like they're okay, there are great general dentists and there are horrible general dentists just like there are probably great prosthodontists and horrible prosthodontists. I graduated with... there was a guy in my class, Rich you know him, Dr. Tony Lera. He was second in my class. The guy had like hands of gold. I would, I would put him up against any prosthodontist out there and for this woman to say that all general dentists do shoddy work and they don't know what they're doing, I'll put him up against her in a second because it's just simply, simply not true. It's horrible to hear stuff like that.
Dr. Richard Madow: It really is and, you know, back to your earlier comment about TBSE, I think usually when somebody's only way of getting moving forward is to criticize others, that's a big problem. And I'll tell you something else that we both learned early on in our career and that is, no matter how tempting it is, no matter how true it is, don't criticize the work of a colleague, don't criticize the work of a fellow dentist. You know, I think we've all been in a situation where a patient comes in, a lot of times it's an emergency and they just open their mouth and you see like the crappiest work you've ever seen in your life, and you're first, you think you want to do is who did this piece of shit? But you know what, first of all, it never gets you anywhere. They probably love their old dentist and secondly, you weren't there when it was done. You don't know the circumstances. You have no idea how poorly these patients treated this restoration. You have no idea how much they were squirming and screaming and crying while the dentist was trying to do their very best. You just don't know and it doesn't get you anywhere to criticize. Just say, "I can just tell you exactly what we see here today and that is this and this is the way we can treat and it's going to turn out beautifully," instead of saying, "Oh, this thing is horrible. It needs to be redone," it doesn't get you anywhere.
Dr. David Madow: And along another line I will say that when neither of us touched on this one yet Rich but I'm willing to bet that what she's saying because I think it in most states, the Board of Dental Examiners or whatever it might be in your state does not allow you to say that you're superior to another dentist and to tell, tell the public that other dentists are bad. I mean, that's pretty much illegal in every state. If the board gets ahold of this thing, I think she's, she's in big trouble. 
Dr. Richard Madow: That's illegal in 49 States actually. [Laughs] Yeah, I agree. She should be thrown in dental jail.
Dr. David Madow: Yeah.
Dr. Richard Madow: Apparently, she's... I don't know if I'd use the word retracted but she's taking all the stuff down. She's learned her lesson.
Dr. David Madow: Okay. I didn't know that, okay.
Dr. Richard Madow: I just don't think that it looks good for the future. No one's going to refer to her.
Dr. David Madow: Yeah.
Dr. Richard Madow: Maybe they'll refer to her as something but they won't refer to her as a dentist.
Dr. David Madow: Just... doctors if you're listening, doctors, team members, just alwa- always take the high road. Do the best you can, take CE, make sure your treatment is great, take great care of your patients, and talk up the profession. There are a lot of great dentists out there and great team members and talk about... we're all in that... we're all kind of on the same team so to speak. And just… you know, just saying something bad about the profession like that, it doesn't do anybody any good. It's just horrible.
Dr. Richard Madow: A little bit off topic but it's a little bit of a tangent but this, all this talk about general dentists and specialists is reminding me that this... I think sometimes we're in a tough spot when we do need to refer and the patient loves us and they don't want to leave the office and they say, "Well, why do I have to go to this specialist? Can't you do it here?" 
Dr. David Madow: And you say, "Well, I can't do it here because I don't know what the f I'm doing."
Dr. Richard Madow: It's so funny. I remember early in my career, I asked kind of a mentor what are you saying that in that situation? He said, "Well, tell the patient that the specialist has different instruments, that they have just for their specialty." I thought, that is the worst answer, I've heard that many times [crosstalk]. That's the worst answer.
Dr. David Madow: Specialist has different instruments.
Dr. Richard Madow: Yeah, different instruments. They have an oboe. I never liked that one. [crosstalk]. 
Dr. David Madow: What's a good answer for that? Because that happens all the time, the patient is, "Oh Dr. Madow, please can't you do this incredible and difficult procedure in your office? I want you to do it."
Dr. Richard Madow: Well, Sarah, we do root canals in this practice. We... about 90% of the patients that come in needing root canals we do them but every once in a while, there's a tooth that's just very complicated, whether the canals are all curved and twisted or it's a root canal that's already been done and is infected and needs to be redone again and that's why we have specialists to do the most complicated, difficult cases. If I felt that I could do this perfectly which I can with just about every root canal, I'd gladly do it for you here but this is one of those rare cases where I feel like you should be in the hands of a specialist just like sometimes your physician wants to refer you to a specialist because they're just more comfortable with doing that. And as soon as that's finished, you're going to be back in this practice, you're still our patient, you'll be here, you know, it's just something like that.
Dr. David Madow: Yeah.
Dr. Richard Madow: No need to get complicated.
Dr. David Madow: Doctor, you're saying that I'm a rare case, I'm like an anomaly. What's wrong with me?
Dr. Richard Madow: You should take that as a compliment.
Dr. David Madow: No, but I get it, that's a good answer. Who's going to argue that? Look, I think it's most important to look the patient in the eye and say, I want the best for you. I want to make sure and this, you know, this is not a routine root canal. I just want to make sure it's done perfectly that's why there are specialists out there. But as soon as he or she is finished, you're coming back to me, we're going to finish the tooth implant, whatever it might be, you know.
Dr. Richard Madow: And by the way, you know that screaming brat you come in with... that you bring with you every time, they have to go to a specialist too, a special doctor called a pediatric dentist [crosstalk], that brat here.
Dr. David Madow: Very special, special.
Dr. Richard Madow: Very, very special.
Dr. David Madow: Very special. 
Dr. Richard Madow: They're going to use those special gold T-matrix bands on, not the silver ones, the gold one. 
Dr. David Madow: Why the gold ones? Why do you like... why, why are they better? Why do you think?
Dr. Richard Madow: I prefer these.
Dr. David Madow: Okay, that's a good answer, that's as good as any [laughs].
Dr. Richard Madow: Hey, before we get on with the call. I just want to make a quick comment; a bunch of people have been asking us about our Masterclasses. Our Masterclasses are something we do every couple of months, typically in our home office of Baltimore, Maryland. We have a fantastic facility. They are very comfortable and fun where we do our Masterclasses. As you know The Dental Practice Fixers have been doing individual coaching for practices for quite a while now. We have a great success rate and coaching can be a very intimate relationship. It's just... it's different than going to a seminar or reading a journal. It's, you know, we're really there as a part of your practice. And many people want to learn what would that be like to work with you and that's why we do these Masterclasses for people that are interested in growing their practices and want to know what it's like to work with us as their coaches. We do them for free there in Baltimore every couple months. We've got some going on right now. You can sign up, it's masterclass.madow.com.
Dr. David Madow: You got it.
Dr. Richard Madow: You can tell I was struggling to come up with a website there, masterclass.madow.com. Again, it's a great day. We get to know you, you get to know us. Some of our coaching team will be there. We can talk about your practice, about your successes, about your struggles, even maybe brainstorm, offer you some suggestions. But the real purpose is if you think you might want to work with us as your coaches, this is a way in a very safe environment for very little expense, you can come and see what it's all about. So, masterclass.madow.com. We'd love to see you at an upcoming Masterclass.
Dr. David Madow: We hope to see you there. By the way before we get into the call, as Rich and I are trying to help you any way we can in your practice, something else we came across fairly recently that we've been helping a ton of practices with and it's something that every single dental office is doing already. So, we're not asking you to do anything new but you are accepting credit cards for payment, 99.9% of dental offices are accepting credit cards. But here's the thing, there's an old way to do it and there's a new way to do it because the old way basically is there's a processing company that takes a percentage from every single transaction, you do a crown, you do a... you do a bridge, you do implants, and somebody charged it, they take a pretty nice percentage of your production, of your collections there. There's a new way to do it, it's called, Fattmerchant, and there's just, Rich, correct me if I'm wrong but it's only a monthly fee, it's only one fee, small fee per month, and it doesn't matter how much, it doesn't matter if you're collecting a million dollars a month, we hope you are, but it doesn't matter, you're still paying the same monthly fee. So, it's something you're already doing [crosstalk].
Dr. Richard Madow: You still have to pay these are MasterCard, Amex, they have their, their percentage but the processing company, that's when processor takes no percentage. 
Dr. David Madow: The processor takes no percentage, thanks for clarifying that. Changing merchants, changing merchants has been very difficult in the past because it just... it was a whole rigmarole, very complex, now it's pretty much a phone call and or a few clicks on a website and seamlessly you're changed to Fattmerchant. We really believe in them. We've been talking about... talking them up for quite some time. It's never been easier. You're leaving money on the table if you keep your old credit card processing company. So, what we're going to recommend is check out Fattmerchant. I want to make sure I give you the right link and it's too good if you're watching the video, it's going to be below also. It is simply bit.ly, it's B-I-T dot L-Y, bit.ly/fattmad and it's spelled in case you're listening to audio it's F-A-T-T-M-A-D. So, the whole thing together, it's right below if you're watching video, bit.ly/fattmad. Check them out, it's a one-time change that doesn't cost you anything and it's going to save you money every single month in your dental practice. Who doesn't want that? It's a no-brainer.
Dr. Richard Madow: Amen.
Dr. David Madow: Same. 
Dr. Richard Madow: We are in actually, we use it at The Madow Center.
Dr. David Madow:  We use them, sure. We believe in them and we use them as well, of course.
Dr. Richard Madow:  Alright, let's go to our call, it should be fun.
Dr. David Madow: Sounds great.
Female Speaker: Thank you for calling, this is Julie.
Dr. Richard Madow: Hey, quick question for you. I live near your office, I was thinking about making an appointment for a cleaning.
Female Speaker: Sure.
Dr. Richard Madow: But I don't know much about it. Can you tell me a little bit about the doctor?
Female Speaker: She's a female.
Dr. Richard Madow: Excuse me?
Female Speaker: She's female.
Dr. Richard Madow: She's female, okay.
Female Speaker: A female doctor, the only dentist in this office, been practicing... how many years doc? Do you know how long she's been here? 22 years something right? Heck, I don't know.
Dr. Richard Madow: You don't know. 
Female Speaker: 22 years maybe, you know, she takes children, does general dentistry; most surgeries, you know, the extractions, anything like that, things like root canals, implants, big things like that always get referred out to another doctor but everybody seems to love her.
Dr. Richard Madow: Why, why do big things get referred out to another doctor?
Female Speaker: Yeah because she's just general, she doesn't do the root canals and the extractions and stuff.
Dr. Richard Madow: Gotcha, gotcha. Okay. Well, hey, thanks so much for that information. I appreciate it.
Female Speaker: You're welcome.
Dr. Richard Madow: Okay, bye.
Female Speaker: Bye.
Dr. Richard Madow: Wow, what do you think?
Dr. David Madow: Oh my God, what do I think? What do I think about that? I'll tell you what I think. She's a female.
Dr. Richard Madow: She is?
Dr. David Madow: She's a female. Oh okay, sign me up.
Dr. Richard Madow: That's the most you can say about her?
Dr. David Madow: I want to tell you something, Rich, these things like did they just write themselves, I mean, I want to make it clear to all of our listeners and viewers now, these are not scripted, they're not fake, we take, we take a phone number at random and ask a question and in 99.9% of the cases, the calls are like this, it's unbelievable.
Dr. Richard Madow: I'll tell you like 1955 maybe saying the doctor is a woman might have meant something. You know, these days with dental school classes being more than 50% are female thankfully and, and nobody flinches it at what gender their doctor, their accountant, their lawyer. I mean, that's really from the old days, you know, we don't care anymore. To make that the first thing you say and I have to tell you because I looked up this, this person's phone number, the woman's name is on the practice so it's obviously a woman's name. And they answer with her name which you got beeped out so you couldn't hear that.
Dr. David Madow: It wasn't it like Pat, right? It wasn't like Dr. Pat [crosstalk]. It was definitely a female name, right?
Dr. Richard Madow: She's a female, okay great. How long she's been... I don't know how long she's been pra- how long... I don't know.
Dr. David Madow: How long she's been practicing? I think, I think... how long, at 22 years something like that.
Dr. Richard Madow: Something like that. Then, she was like instead of saying how great she was, she started saying negative stuff. She doesn't do root canals, she doesn't do extractions, she doesn't do implants. Perfect, sounds like the offer is for me.
Dr. David Madow: Before she said that I thought it was really fine, she... this is very, very helpful, she treats, she treats people and I think they said like she treats patients and kids or adults and kids or something oh that's, that's a tremendous help. I'll tell you something, she said one thing that if you were to base the call on this one thing and expanded on it, it would've been so great. She said one thing I thought that was very good, you remember what that was? 
Dr. Richard Madow: Everybody loves her.
Dr. David Madow: Exactly, everyone seems to love her which was great. But that's the only good thing she said the entire, otherwise she, she didn't like... she didn't know what to say.
Dr. Richard Madow: Horrible, horrible. It wasn't that tough of a question, tell me a little bit about your doctor.
Dr. David Madow: No, no, not, not tough at all especially if every single person on the team knows the quality and believes in the doc and has been going to the... she, look... she could have said, look, we all... everybody here sees, whatever her name, we're not going to give her name, sees her. We've been seeing her... I've been... my family's been going to her for 10 years. She is great, she's so gentle, her work is beautiful, anything.
Dr. Richard Madow: Okay, let's, let's make a suggestion. Have a team meeting and everybody should have kind of an elevator speech, tell me about your doctor and they... you should be... anybody listening to this should be able to say a 30-second little spiel about how great your doctor is. She's been here for 22 years, she's so gentle, so many people in the community come including us, we come here, our whole family comes here, we all love her, she makes beautiful smiles, and she really makes great personal connections because she takes the time to listen to every single patient. I mean, could you imagine if she just said something like that?
Dr. David Madow: But guess what, Rich, to take it a step further, it's a really good exercise because it's taking a step further, somebody calls an hour later and says how much is a cleaning, you can skirt that question and then go really deeply into how great of an office and how great the doctor is and totally, you know, shield that question and-
Dr. Richard Madow: Let me tell you a little bit about our doctor.
Dr. Richard Madow: Exactly, exactly. Oh, you want to know how much cleaning is, well it sounds like you're looking for a new dentist, is that right? Yeah, we are. Well, let me tell you about our doctor. Oh, I mean, it could be like a home run.
Dr. Richard Madow: And this is also part of our ALASKA system, those of you using our ALASKA system, as kind of a loose phone script when a new patient calls, the K in ALASKA stands for kindness and in 10 seconds of that kindness, you brag about your doctor, you brag about your practice. But again, we're not big believers in like word-for-word scripting but you should be able to boom, use something great about your doctor anytime it's necessary. And if you can't, you're probably in the wrong practice.
Dr. David Madow: This woman was just okay, again, there always are surprises when somebody asks a question or calls the office and like our last episode, you've got to be... you got to think on your feet really quickly. And asking a little bit about the doctor is not that difficult of a question and to say, well, she hesitated, well, she's, she's female, she's female.
Dr. Richard Madow: I just, I just checked she is female [laughs].
Dr. David Madow: Oh my God. Well, I don't know if you-
Dr. Richard Madow: That's the first thing you say, she's female? [laughs]. 
Dr. David Madow: She said it twice too, she had to say it twice. She's female, she's female.
Dr. Richard Madow: Now, what if she were working in a guy's practice and she would say, well, he's a man. I doubt it.
Dr. David Madow: That's a really good point so that's kind, it's kind of sexist right there.
Dr. Richard Madow: Exactly.
Dr. David Madow: I'm telling you. Okay, I'm turning in... I'm voting early on this one. I've got an early vote. I'm turning my vote in.
Dr. Richard Madow: And vote early, vote often. What's your vote?
Dr. David Madow: F, totally F.
Dr. Richard Madow: Well, you're going to be shocked the grade I give but F as well, double F. She got double F. 
Dr. David Madow: I'd say Rich, we should just at some point we hope to get somebody that does a great call, we're able to give somebody an A or A minus or even a B plus. 
Dr. Richard Madow: I'm glad you brought that up. These are not edited, we don't like put the thing on pause and make 20 calls and then come on.
Dr. David Madow: We really don't. [Crosstalk].
Dr. Richard Madow: They, they just are not good every single time. Nobody knows what to say. Hey, if you've got a suggestion for a question, ask for a really cool mystery shopper call of the week, please send it to us at podcast@madow.com or is it podcasts@madow.com?
Dr. David Madow: We ask this every time and we [crosstalk].
Dr. Richard Madow: Maybe it's both by now.
Dr. David Madow: Had the system fixed for sure. I think we prefer podcast, a singular podcast@madow.com but I think Sylvia has worked her magic I believe.
Dr. Richard Madow: Right, unbelievable.
Dr. David Madow: It will go to us.
Dr. Richard Madow: Send us a question for the call of the week, we'd love to do it for you live.
Dr. David Madow: Of course, as you know a lot of people reach out to us on Facebook with questions by Messenger, any way you want to get to us, you know how to get to us. We've been around long enough. And again, if you're watching the video version of this, please comment, like, react, whatever you want to do, and we will, we will ask your question and we'll, we'll try to answer it right there in YouTube, Dental Practice Fixers on YouTube, search for it.
Dr. Richard Madow: Super cool. Thanks so much everyone for being with us, whether it's audio, or video, or all the above. This was Episode Seven, Season Two of The Dental Practice Fixers. I'm Dr. Richard Madow.
Dr. David Madow: Dr. David Madow. We will see you next time. Thanks for being with us.
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